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I hate Spider!
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Sittin' at the dock of the Bayeaux Tapestry
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Picture of D M
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I'm halfway through Anansi Boys. Fat Charlie's talking to Tiger.

But damn, do I hate Spider, he's doing all th things to Fat Charlie's life that would touch a nerve in mine! Mad

I can't see how things could sort themselves out, but I guess I'll have to finish the book!


---
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" - H. L. Mencken
 
Posts: 35348 | Location: London | Registered: October 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Runs with wolves, yahr!
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I'm about at that point too...when it came to light that Spider was sleeping with Rosie, I got so pissed off I almost gave up on the book...I hate it when a character's life gets wrecked like that...

I'll admit this isn't one of my fav Gaiman reads so far - I just don't it funny...entertaining yes, but not as funny as it's supposed to be...I find I get angry and the actions of the characters and their idiocy/cruelity more than laughing at them...


*******


~You're in the Moulin Rouge babe! Your next month's rent depends on it!~

~We'd be so lost...if we weren't 'us'"~
 
Posts: 4138 | Location: Enchanted Mists | Registered: May 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Resting by the shade of the tumtum tree, yahr!
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Well, I have to say throughout the whole begging all I did was think, why doesn't Charlie punch Spider? He's a jerk!

But, let me tell you, it'll get better. Just keep reading.


-----~~-----
Cthulhu for president~Why vote for the lesser evil?
 
Posts: 9600 | Location: I was hoping you could tell me | Registered: April 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Village Elder
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We're in spoilers, right? *spoilers (just in case)* Well, Charlie does not come off as someone who would just hit someone - he's someone who needs to be pushed A LOT to get to that point. Which is just what happens.
 
Posts: 13129 | Location: Tucson | Registered: June 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Elah Adonijai
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*continues on in spoiler territory*

I have to say I really hated Spider at first...but by the time the book ended, I felt like I had some kind of connection with him. Like he was the jerk you couldn't help but love.


____________________________________________________________________
"Patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer i beg to submit that it is the first." - Ambrose Bierce
----------------------
A Good Scoundrel isn't Hard to Find
 
Posts: 2179 | Location: Hiding in the secret compartments of Whittier, CA | Registered: July 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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i like spider

i never hated him, he was amoral but that's what he is.

but i like him.


~
I prefer to live in a country that's small, and old, and where no one would ever have the NERVE to wear a cape in public, whether they could leap tall buildings in a single bound or not.

the parrot... ...gets tiresome.
the parrot... ...i ate him.


CHIKKINZ?
 
Posts: 20596 | Location: England | Registered: June 21, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Psittacula servus
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I've been trying to pin down how I felt about Spider. I didn't hate him, but then again I didn't like him. I felt sorry for him in many ways.

He was adrift, lost, with no real purpose in life other than to enjoy himself. Though I think he found this life rather shallow and unfulfilling but didn't know how to change it for the better until he met Charlie and Rosie.


---------
She was not quite what you would call refined.
She was not quite what you would call unrefined.
She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot.
~ Mark Twain

Eternity lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you eaten enough ice cream?
 
Posts: 1119 | Location: island of misfit toys | Registered: January 31, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I love spider!! He is just who he is suppose to be! Does he rattle FC's cage? Does he make us all uncomfortable? YEP!! Frankly, FC needed a real challenge. His life was inane; he didn't have any real passion for anything...That is what the trickster is for, to shake things up. Vonnegut says to do horrible things to your characters, to show your audience what they're made of.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: November 25, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I believe with Hennakaren. There were times when Spider was really hate-able, but if he didn't do those things that he did, then there wouldn't be a very interesting story. And Fat Charlie would still be the Fat Charlie from the beginning of the book, and not turn into the person he became.


-Scrum
The old man in the falafel cart is out to get you. This is your only warning.
 
Posts: 10 | Location: Portland, OR | Registered: November 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think Spider is great!

I can think of more than a few people who need to have their lives stolen, so they learn how to really LIVE!

I'm really digging Anansi Boys... Next to American Gods it might be my fav. Gaiman book so far!
 
Posts: 442 | Registered: August 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I kind of hate Spider too. I've never had any interest in the Bad Boy types, either in real life or in fiction.

In thinking about Spider, though, I realized that he's a unique situation, because he's all the mischief and magic that was pulled out of Fat Charlie, so it's not as easy to blame him for being the bastard that he is; he's not an actual fully-formed person.

But THEN I realized that if I'm going to hate Spider less because of that, it also means that when it comes to Fat Charlie, I have to LIKE him less. Because if Spider gets any pardon because he's not a fully formed person, well, Fat Charlie isn't a fully formed person either--he's all the good and docile nature that was left behind, so how can I give him credit for his goodness when all the bad and mischievous inclinations were pulled out of him and he hasn't had to resist innate temptation the way normal people do?

So THEN I decided that Fat Charlie and Spider are like stumpy regenerated Starfish. No, bear with me here... Starfish--and worms, and some other creatures--like Anansi pointed out, have the ability to regenerate when a part is chopped off, right? But sometimes the chopped off part doesn't grow back to normal size. Sometimes it stays kind of stubby forever, maybe because the animal didn't have all the resources or strength necessary to regenerate fully. So I'd like to think that Fat Charlie regenerated some of his mischief or bad side, albeit not to its former size. Spider, on the other hand, seems not to have regenerated any of the Good. So I'm going to go ahead and believe that Fat Charlie is more of a whole person than Spider and that he can still get credit for being a good guy, while at the same time I get to take points away from Spider for not regenerating back any of the good when he probably could have.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tseeps,
 
Posts: 21 | Location: Brooklyn, NY | Registered: July 10, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you hate spider you must hate Fat charlie as well. I'll tell you that my own emotions told me that Fat Charlie was a lazy good for nothing lout. The whole point of the story is to show the Yin and the Yang of teh Anansi Boys. You see Charlie is the under-achiever, wholely self centered but insecure. While spider is hyper confident and wholely self centered (or is he as he truely falls for Rosie, something Charlie doesn't do.) The Story is the homoginizing of these two characters.

Further we could say that these two sides of the Anansi Boys are the two sides of the creative mind. There are many ties through out the book tieing the entertain ment industry into the book. The reference to Graham Coats, entertainment manager, as the embodyment of Tiger are the Icing on a cake of "nobody sings tiger songs antmore," Coats'aided by birds and the refernces of songs are like stories. I'd go so far as to say that neil is in fact talking here about his personal quest to be published. Spider is a necessary aspect. Remember it is spider who makes the the seven legged spider out of mud and blood, manufacturing his own luck!


"Drinking is like,..the more you do it the better it is." Steve Crandle
 
Posts: 9 | Registered: January 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Drunk:
If you hate spider you must hate Fat charlie as well.


That's...kind of a rigid statement. If I hate Spider because he's a bastarding bastardy bastard, why does that mean I have to hate Fat Charlie too? I hate Spider because of the things that he did. Fat Charlie did not do those particular things. Therefore, I do not hate Fat Charlie. Even if you're right that Fat Charlie is an underachiever, that's not something that would make me HATE him. It might make me have less respect or admiration for him, but there's a big difference between not admiring or respecting someone and hating them. I hate people who do immoral, hurtful things to others because they just don't care about taking other people's feelings into consideration in their decisionmaking. I do not hate people who have boring jobs who aren't making the most money they can or having the top job they might be capable of having.

I can see why you'd call Fat Charlie an underachiever, but I'm not sure I completely agree. So he had a boring job he didn't particularly like. Some people don't invest their entire happiness in their jobs. They find a stable job that will support them and then care more about finding a companion with which to spend their life. Fat Charlie may have had a boring job, but maybe he just cared less about that than he did about getting married and having a family. That's perfectly ok with me.

Obviously Fat Charlie and Spider have a yin/yang thing going--that's given to us straight out: all the mischief and "tricksiness" was pulled out of Fat Charlie, and that became Spider. And it's a lot easier to be confident and suave when you've got all that Spider's got.

Sorry, I just can't hate Fat Charlie.
 
Posts: 21 | Location: Brooklyn, NY | Registered: July 10, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My meaning is that in the end the brothers end up the same, a match set. They are the halves of the same star fish. They have they're own faults to begin with at first but they are each half a person or half their whole. We dislike spider because he is amoral or hedonistic while in the text orthers (Rosie's mother eg.) dislike Fat Charlie because he is over moral or too cautious. Each is a negative trait and a direct result of their initial split. I agree that Spider is more deplorable but in the text he's the more popular.


"Drinking is like,..the more you do it the better it is." Steve Crandle
 
Posts: 9 | Registered: January 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Drunk:
My meaning is that in the end the brothers end up the same, a match set. They are the halves of the same star fish. They have they're own faults to begin with at first but they are each half a person or half their whole. We dislike spider because he is amoral or hedonistic while in the text orthers (Rosie's mother eg.) dislike Fat Charlie because he is over moral or too cautious. Each is a negative trait and a direct result of their initial split. I agree that Spider is more deplorable but in the text he's the more popular.


But they're not a matched set. They are, like you say, two halves of the same original starfish. But the two separate starfish they grew into are different from each other. (Anansi mentioned starfish to begin with, but only to allude to Fat Charlie what had happened. How we choose to continue the metaphore is individual opinion, I guess.)

Spider is definitely the more popular one in the text. Fact is, he's the one who'd probably be more popular with a lot of people in real life too. And that makes me sad. People often go for the more fun and charming person, regardless of the rest of his characteristics.
 
Posts: 21 | Location: Brooklyn, NY | Registered: July 10, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I relate to your sadness, but truth be told I liked both characters while I was reading the book. In thinking back on the book I disslike both as they both, in my mind, had the same fault. They were half a person. All Id and no ego or all ego and no Id make charlie or spider no fun.


"Drinking is like,..the more you do it the better it is." Steve Crandle
 
Posts: 9 | Registered: January 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Spider has to exist as he is in order to be the catalyst in Fat Charlie's life. In the beginning of the book, FC is pursuing a life of safety and boredom. He possesses no passion, he settles. It is only when he is shaken up and forced to take risks, to venture outside of his comfort zone, that Fc becomes a realized person. Spider is the change that makes so many people uncomfortable.
 
Posts: 5 | Registered: January 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They were one person who got split into two. Each half developed into its own self, with all the flaws of having an essential aspect missing. Spider in fact is the ultimate Hollywood ideal--a good-lookin' party boy. What I had expected at the end was that Spider would be re-absorbed into Charlie. That they each--like the starfish--regenerated their missing pieces (and began taking on characteristics of the other, Spider being more domestic, etc.) ties it all back into Anansi's early attempt to explain it all with the starfish analogy.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Taoist "Wooo-weeee!" The bosom that can be tamed is not a real bosom.

Dammit babies, you've got to be kind!
~Kurt Vonnegut
 
Posts: 179 | Location: yes | Registered: January 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
is in perfect karmic alignment
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*chuckles*
Interesting! The funny thing is that my reactions were the opposite entirely.
Spider does what he does, because he always takes what he wants, and he wants Rosie (he later realises that he's made a big mistake, if it's actually *Rosie* he wants)
Charlie does what he does, directly to spite Spider. Charlie makes *himself* powerless against his brother, and then shifts the responisbility to someone else (while family matters are best resolved within the family).
So while Spider does what he does, because that's what he always does (there are always other women right?) Charlie does what he does directly to have *someone else* get rid of Spider for him (he directly wants rid of Spider, he doesn't even really want Rosie back because he loves her, but because she's *his*.)


-------------------
Blog: Room with a view.

~You are a *Taverner*.
Sometimes patrons want to go where everybody knows their names, though it helps when half of them are named John. When people want to celebrate, or commiserate, they gather to your establishment. You provide the atmosphere, the warmth, rum, and even an ear to bend. Did I mention the rum? Years before the language will be mangled with terms like facilitator and networking and interpersonal communication, you've overseen it all, and broken up a few bar fights, to boot.~
-Royko

 
Posts: 8667 | Location: Just north of Earth | Registered: July 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
is tired of these monkey-fighting snakes on this Monday to Friday plane
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despite all your fine arguments and reasoning, i still just really disliked spider Razz


High Ranking Official of the Realm of Unproductivity and Procrastination,
Dean of the UUP, First Class member of the order of the Pineapple.
-scruffy ambulating reanimated hypothetical vegetarian leigonairre of the undead. ~ Cav
-Look, I've got a cape and a tendency towards violence. It does not make me a superhero! ~ Domitella
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