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has been eaten by a grue.
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Picture of Apathy
posted
I'm not entirely sure where this goes, since I'm referring to three different works. Don't hurt me, please. Also, this is my very first thingamabob; again, please don't hurt me.

There's a Lamia in Stardust, a Lamia in Neverwhere, and a blatantly Lamia-like character in Beowulf. Should I be thinking of the mythological lamia or Keats' Lamia (from the poem of same name)? Or both? And why so many Lamias? I think it's a cool motif, myself, but I guess the superfeminists out there could probably find a reason to be offended.

So what's the deal?


~ fLame Woosh ~
Elite Special Force Procrastinator, trained in High Arts of Extended Coffee Breaks and
Master Linguist of the Water Cooler Conversation
 
Posts: 7134 | Location: the gloaming | Registered: November 29, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Aufero vestri dmno manuum a meus antenna
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*hurts you*

Actually, that's an excellent question and I hadn't picked up on the multiple Llamias (and STILL haven't been able to see Beowulf... grrr.)

Anyone?


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"I know that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones blah blah blah.... but THAT guy is paranoid!" -- Agent Fox Mulder
 
Posts: 37699 | Location: Jacksonville, FL | Registered: December 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They're one of my favourite D & D monsters. I mean, really, they can sling charm spells like crazy, they have decent hit points for their CR and impressive melee attacks. Clearly, Neil is channelling me.

In all seriousness, the Lamia as a mythological figure is a classic and, particularly in modern work, well-suited to use as guardian at the gate, the main obstacle or just something interesting along the way just because, as you say, it's a decidely profeminist antagonist.


__________
AJGraeme
"Why are there ghosts in the kitchen punching each other in the balls?" - Aidan, "Being Human"
"Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried."
- G.K. Chesterton

My moderator voice is red.
 
Posts: 48708 | Location: Concord, NH, USA | Registered: July 20, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Has no front teeth
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In the questions Neil answers about his books, at least in Neverwhere he said the Lamia and Hunter were both named what they were because "it's what they do".

Lamia is Greek for "devourer" or "great shark".

If that helps.


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shooting moonbeams out of her a(censored)e.
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Posts: 24398 | Location: With my weird little family | Registered: March 24, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
has been eaten by a grue.
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Picture of Apathy
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this is what Wiki says about the Greek myth, and this is what Wiki says about the poem. I'm kinda creating a difficulty for myself, I suppose, in trying to decide which manifestation is more relevant in these works.

yeah, I also see this sort of character as being decidedly profeminist--and particularly in a male-dominated world.


~ fLame Woosh ~
Elite Special Force Procrastinator, trained in High Arts of Extended Coffee Breaks and
Master Linguist of the Water Cooler Conversation
 
Posts: 7134 | Location: the gloaming | Registered: November 29, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
has been eaten by a grue.
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Picture of Apathy
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quote:
Originally posted by aitapata:
*hurts you*



*cries shamelessly*


~ fLame Woosh ~
Elite Special Force Procrastinator, trained in High Arts of Extended Coffee Breaks and
Master Linguist of the Water Cooler Conversation
 
Posts: 7134 | Location: the gloaming | Registered: November 29, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Smaug
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quote:
Originally posted by Apathy:
quote:
Originally posted by aitapata:
*hurts you*



*cries shamelessly*


Big Grin

I think we've got someone here who would fit right in Smile


~
I prefer to live in a country that's small, and old, and where no one would ever have the NERVE to wear a cape in public, whether they could leap tall buildings in a single bound or not.

the parrot... ...gets tiresome.
the parrot... ...i ate him.


CHIKKINZ?
 
Posts: 20596 | Location: England | Registered: June 21, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
has been eaten by a grue.
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haha. because I cry like a 5-year-old? interesting characterization of the forum, I must say, but thanks. Big Grin

also, I love your Ed icon. much <3ness.


~ fLame Woosh ~
Elite Special Force Procrastinator, trained in High Arts of Extended Coffee Breaks and
Master Linguist of the Water Cooler Conversation
 
Posts: 7134 | Location: the gloaming | Registered: November 29, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Weirdy American Tart Thing
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I can't quote it, but I vaguely remember Neil mentioning something in his blog that someone else (director?) named the witches for the film. In the book (Stardust) I don't think they ever had separate names, they were just the three sisters. (but I really do need to re-read the book)

Welcome aboard Apathy!



Minister of Kraftwerk in the Realm of U & P, Order of the Pineapple with frond for advancement in Nap studies.


The brain: not always amenable to logic. ~Hive

 
Posts: 25366 | Location: under tangled yarn | Registered: August 09, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
has been eaten by a grue.
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I have read the book, actually, but at least five years ago, probably more"”during college, no less, when everything tends to run together"”and it was a borrowed copy. I didn't remember the character's name, but I assumed that the movie managed to stick close to the book in at least the naming of characters. that was obviously silly. Smile

thanks for the info. I will hold on tenaciously to the odd coincidence and appropriateness, but I suppose I'll leave off the quest for the direct literary homage. *sigh*


~ fLame Woosh ~
Elite Special Force Procrastinator, trained in High Arts of Extended Coffee Breaks and
Master Linguist of the Water Cooler Conversation
 
Posts: 7134 | Location: the gloaming | Registered: November 29, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Apathy:
haha. because I cry like a 5-year-old? interesting characterization of the forum, I must say, but thanks. Big Grin

also, I love your Ed icon. much <3ness.


thank you, i do too Smile

and i think you'd fit in for lots of reasons - have you not spotted our time old tradation of abuse months?

here
here
here
here
here
and here.

and they accuse of of being nice here *shesh!*

you should pop over to the worlds end, that's where all the social is.


~
I prefer to live in a country that's small, and old, and where no one would ever have the NERVE to wear a cape in public, whether they could leap tall buildings in a single bound or not.

the parrot... ...gets tiresome.
the parrot... ...i ate him.


CHIKKINZ?
 
Posts: 20596 | Location: England | Registered: June 21, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
has been eaten by a grue.
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Picture of Apathy
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oh, wow. that is the most beautiful thing I've seen in ages. *wipes tear*

I believe I shall take your advice...with significant lurking about first. tank you veddy much. *bow*


~ fLame Woosh ~
Elite Special Force Procrastinator, trained in High Arts of Extended Coffee Breaks and
Master Linguist of the Water Cooler Conversation
 
Posts: 7134 | Location: the gloaming | Registered: November 29, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello everyone. I see there are some really good thoughts here. I came myself to see if there were any connections between these figures (pardon me but I forgot the Lamia from Stardust-it's been so long ago that I read that one)and also possibly the Other Mother character from Coraline. Yes, I said Coraline. You see in Coraline-the Other Mother, or the Beldam (night-witch or hag) if you prefer- exhibits many of the features of the Lamia from Greek Mythology...she is eyeless (buttons, anyone?) - a gift that Zeus portrayed upon her: the ability to remove her eyes, in order to erase occasionally from her mind the image engraved upon them of a jealous Hera slaughtering her children, and also perhaps as a prophetic / oracular device. Also, here her identity as a child-killer is unmistakable, a supposed trait she unfortunately was said to have picked up in her long-standing descent into madness after the murder of her own offspring. I think it is quite possible that Mr. Gaiman is aware of all the correlations here between the Lamias and the Lamia-like characters often described in his written works-and given his penchant for myth and old world / neo-paganistic themes-I also believe it is quite possible that he knows exactly what he is doing in creating them. By the way, now that I may have exposed the possible true identity - or at least one of them - of the Other Mother (my apologies to Neil if I'm getting this wrong-he IS a genius) if anyone cares to look furthur into the possible true identity of Lamia, feel free. Here's a hint-at one time she tended a Garden...


"Black IS traditional..."
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: May 31, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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By the way, there is a direct correlation between the three sisters in Stardust and Greek mythology...one sister Mormo (is named after Lamia's supposed consort Mormo, a god of the Underwold once given the title of Lord / King of the Ghouls) - the other, Empusa, is named after the Empuses, creatures of her later brood. Definitely NO coincidence here. And by the way, I shouldn't really do this but those interested in my prior clue as to Lamia's probable true identity may also know that Lamia may actually be only the Greek mythological name / translation for a being which in fact is much, much older...


"Black IS traditional..."
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: May 31, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Indeed, it is Lamia only in the film - I read the book recently (also just a borrowed copy; it's how it works...) and none of the witches is named, not even this most important one. At one point she calls herself by a name - which I forgot, but it's in a Wikipedia article - but that was just an alias for meeting Ditchwater Sal.


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There is Robinson, alone on a deserted island; but they will marry.
 
Posts: 180 | Location: alternating between Bohemia and Moravia | Registered: September 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank you for your post. It's been a long time since I read Neverwhere, but I looked it up and in that one I can tell you that the succubus is named Lamia on a couple of occasions. As for Stardust, it's been a while since I read that one also, but I feel that she is named Lamia at least once-but possibly once only. You're right about the weird sisters (or witches) not being called by their names throughout most of that book. Regardless of whether she is named or not, however, I think that this is the entity that Mr. Gaiman tends to have a major focus on-as she appears in different guises in many of his works. I too am a fan (I have the Renaissance painting "Lamia" on my desktop screen)-lol.


"Black IS traditional..."
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: May 31, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by enigmat1c:
but I feel that she is named Lamia at least once


No, she's not, I'm positive on that, I read it just few days ago. Unless my friend's copy is a different version from yours...
Otherwise, I'm not learned about the mythological being called Lamia at all, so you can be right in your assumptions. It's just that the name certainly isn't used.


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There is Robinson, alone on a deserted island; but they will marry.
 
Posts: 180 | Location: alternating between Bohemia and Moravia | Registered: September 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No hard feelings. I've been wrong before...=:-)


"Black IS traditional..."
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: May 31, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good. I wouldn't want to start my membership here by causing hard feelings. Smile


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There is Robinson, alone on a deserted island; but they will marry.
 
Posts: 180 | Location: alternating between Bohemia and Moravia | Registered: September 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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