*hugs Fins*

Also, the 'ugly friend' -once the best-looking girl of the pair has been approached, and she's rejected you, over and over again, there come sa point in the night or a degree of drunkenness and moronness where you make a move on the other friend, assuming she'll have lower standards as she is clearly less attractive.


(ETA: just thought I'd clarify I wrote a smiley here because, for some reason, and even though my self-esteem is shit, it never really got me down -I was luckily able to see stupidity wher eit appeared and actually took great pleasure in inflicting my burning sarcasm on the guys, to the hilarity of my more attractive friend, to the further humiliation of said moron. Happy times...)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cloverheart,

*hugs punky tightly*

Stupidity should be treated as a disease. No matter how much you think is out there, the actual amount will always surprise you!

Hope all these guys, especially the "nice" ones, should wake one morning missing the part of their anatomy they treasure the most.

I apologise to the really nice male members of the Board, but that is that.

Well. Assholes are everywhere. Whether you're pretty, or the "ugly friend" or "the girl in the corner". When i lost the weight and was deemed a little better looking: not all interest was all that charming either. Simply because everywhere you go, you run into at least *one* donkey.

My colleague who is fun, and has a measure of talent, and a healthy dose of confidence; he was taken aback by the amount of female interest in him. (He's 19) I neglected to tell him how many bastared the world can apparently hold: and that the women who have any sense will run to him as fast as their nicely shaped legs will carry them.

One of my biggest regrets in life: my girlfriend and I were going through a really tough time of things. I started talking to a friend of a friend, Tegan (the first time we spoke, my friend realized he'd forgotten the book he was going to tell her about upstairs, handed me the phone and said, "Jim, this is Tegan. Be nice."). She was fantastic. She was funny, intelligent, had a gorgeous Welsh accent and was just about everything I like about people.

Finally, I was going to meet her. My girlfriend and I were "on a break" at the time, and I felt quite comfortable going out with Tegan if that was the way things went. I was so excited. I rounded the corner, knowing she was around the bend and . . . the crest fell. She was large. Not obese, not even more overweight than I was at the time, but large, and it completely turned me off. She knew it, too, and we were hardly even acquaintances afterwards.

I called her up a number of years back and apologized for how heartless and callous I was to do that, and how much I regret it and she said, "It's okay, I'm used to it." That hurt more than anything, but I know I deserve that hurt.

So, Punky, as one of the "nice guys" who would've ignored you and treated you like trash, I hope you know that there are some of us who know how stupid we were to do so. That doesn't make us any less deserving of your ire or disdain for having done so, but there are those of us who do have our sincere regrets.

To clarify, I think no one is saying you have to be turned on by someone you're not turned on by.

But that's what happens when you treat people as things: You treat them like shit when you deem them not useful to you.

Thank you for you very honest and very kind reply, Dweller. I can only speak for myself: but i would have deeply appreciated your apology.
And, yes. Thankfully people learn and people grow. "I'm used to it" would be precisely what i would have -and on occasion did- say. (On that occasion, i was told it *did* hurt, but it wasn't meant to. It was a statement of fact.)
People are young and they do and say stupid things that are well withing the realms of forgiveness and even humour.
The last time someone apologised for treating me like a sack of garbage i told him: "I've been through worse".
And it's indicative of this, that i didn't mean for that to hurt him either.

quote:

Originally posted by Punkyfins:
My colleague who is fun, and has a measure of talent, and a healthy dose of confidence; he was taken aback by the amount of female interest in him. (He's 19) I neglected to tell him how many bastared the world can apparently hold: and that the women who have any sense will run to him as fast as their nicely shaped legs will carry them.

*pretends to be a nice guy*
Dammit. Why are there no women with any sense around here?
So, yes, not playing the fool (this won't happen again). Being used is terrible. Not a fun thing to go through.

*hugs for Punkyfins* I know exactly how you feel, unfortunately. I found a guy who still thinks I'm wonderful, but way back when, dating was hell.

A close friend of mine the other day asked me, when I mentioned that one of my mentors was a woman, who, if 20 years younger, I'd do, "Well if you were free now would you?"

(This friend tends to ask me very challenging questions.)

I've thought about it. If I were free now, I'd hit it. Although svelte and saucy, the way I like them, it's really her mind I find attractive. So, yeah, were I free, I can see me doing a woman 20 years my senior.

I didn't realize cougars meant "predatory older women", as Black Jacques defined them at the beginning of this thread.

Ok, the idea I had is based on just a couple of articles in which the term cougar was used, but I thought the concept referred to the kind of middle aged and older women who aren't afraid to still enjoy and express their sexuality, take initiative and an active role in pursuing their erotic interest, including men younger than themselves.

And I assumed the point was to dispel some of the taboos around women hooking up with men younger than themselves, and the sexist and ageist stereotypes of sexually active older women as somehow comical/pathetic/desperate/ridiculous/drunk-guy's-last-choice (undertones which I thought I detected here and there in this thread as well). The whole idea being that women past a certain age can still be sexy, confident and considered erotically interesting, even to a younger partner.

But it's all in the definition, I guess? Am I wrong, or is the understanding here that the term cougar is just another example of how some women take pride in engaging in certain, morally at least ambiguous behaviour (say, treating younger people purely as sex objects) that has previously been considered predominantly male territory?

quote:

Originally posted by Punkyfins:
Thank you for you very honest and very kind reply, Dweller. I can only speak for myself: but i would have deeply appreciated your apology.
And, yes. Thankfully people learn and people grow. "I'm used to it" would be precisely what i would have -and on occasion did- say. (On that occasion, i was told it *did* hurt, but it wasn't meant to. It was a statement of fact.)
People are young and they do and say stupid things that are well withing the realms of forgiveness and even humour.
The last time someone apologised for treating me like a sack of garbage i told him: "I've been through worse".
And it's indicative of this, that i didn't mean for that to hurt him either.

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or over on the thread about regrets. I do appreciate what Dweller wrote here. I know the feelings that the girl felt. I have felt them. I am not a small girl. I know that I am wonderful - smart, sweet, giving. I am hella good in bed. But, the fact is - most guys and lets face it girls too don't give me a second look after they see what size I am. And if they do - most of the time I am meant to feel grateful to them for "getting past it" enough to be with me. I have been lucky enough to have been with a couple of people in my life who found me truly sexy and told me so on a regular basis. Then - sometimes - I feel a bit sorry for them.
I know that feeling of "I'm used to it." and sometimes I DO mean it to hurt. I am not proud of it but sometimes I do want it to hurt. I would not do it to someone I cared about - but someone who passed me over truly just because of my size, I would feel like they deserved a little "harsh truth."
I understand that sometimes there is just no attraction. But why not really give it a shot if you are attracted to everything else?
I think people do learn this ability as they get older. I hope this bodes well for my dating future now that I have hit my 30s. But, now, all I can worry about is that I am getting old on top of things.
Punky - thanks for everything you've been honest about here as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Punkyfins:
When i lost the weight and was deemed a little better looking: not all interest was all that charming either. Simply because everywhere you go, you run into at least *one* donkey.

which is why I'm glad the husband dated and then married me before I lost weight. guys always kinda...passed over me otherwise. I was the girl they all liked hanging out with and talking to and, yeah, I'm one of the guys. can't say how many times I heard that one, and I hated it.

but the way I look at it is that if it'd been right, if there'd been something deeper going on with a guy, maybe it would've trumped the skinny factor. and, if the husband is the one I'm supposed to be with, it doesn't really matter.

I feel dirty just posting this link.

Before I was twenty I dated a number of cougars. I even moved in with one in Ohio while she finished her doctorate. She joked that at her age she wanted kids and a virile lover and that by dating an 18 year old she could have both.

I liked dating older because of the emotional maturity and life experience. Old wine comes in old bottles. Dating younger is fun because you can easily outsmart them and seem so wise and intelligent. The younger person tends to worship the older and not see their faults. That can be quite an aphrodisiac, but of course it can't last. So then a cougar is born. Serial younger lovers to feel attractive and desired.

Well, the second definition in the link at the beginning of the thread quotes Susan Sarandon as a cougar, so that doesn't sound that bad to me. Then again, I wouldn't have considered Tim Robbins a "willing-to-do-anything male", so that just goes to show what I know.

It's funny, but now i'm old enough to have a bit of comparision, I find I really prefer guys my age. I like people who are younger than me, no questions. And they're often in a better shape than guys my age.
But what really attracts me is when men treat me and treat the world with the same level of maturity as I do.
Not saying young = stupid, just that if people have a similar level of experience, tiredness, jadedness, toughness, control and a certain sort of depth of emotion I think you only get when you've been around for long enough, then I find that incredibly attractive.

quote:

And they're often in a better shape than guys my age.

Reads to me like someone on the prowl.

Why, does that sound threatening? Of course I check out guys and of course I have this internal scale ranging from "ew" to "wow". But it's not youth that makes the difference for me when I'm looking for more than an eyeful.

I've noticed some guys find it a bit disturbing that women would check them out in terms of physical exterior.

quote:

Originally posted by Babylon the Bride:

Why, does that sound threatening?

Oh no. Although, I think you have a year or two to go till you qualify for cougardom.

wow. it's interesting, i'm also the girl that all the guys pass over, despite the fact that, dammit, i'm damn well NOT ugly. yes, i'm overweight. but that led me to develop a personality in self defence against the school bullies, and as Ava puts it, i also am hella good in bed. and yet, no one wants to find this out because they all seem so put off by my weight. and i'm not hugely horribly obese. i dress very well for my best features to be shown off, and i'm lucky enough to be very well proportioned. it's interesting to wonder what will change when i reach my target weight, at about 140lbs. and how fast it will change as i go through the weight loss. i don't know. what i DO know is that i will trust men even less if they all suddenly start swarming, because these will be the same men that ignored me before.