That is prejudice...
You've stated you would never date someone who had paid for sex... judging before meeting. That is the definition of prejudice.

it's not my problem if you can't accept facts.

And the idea that you can only take offence if the insult is directed at you is equally ridiculous. I do take offence because i do know people who have paid for, and been paid for, sex. you haven't. Prejudice.

And that your attitude is 'honest' makes it no less offensive and prejudiced.

okay...so if i state that i would never date someone who practiced unsafe sex...that makes me prejudiced? that i would never date someone who had fathered illegitimate children? that i would never date someone who is bisexual and still has the desire to sleep with men? those are all lifestyle choices that people have made. and i can screen for those...because the people who engage in that behavior are not the kind of people with whom i want to have a relationship. and someone who pays or has paid for sex is in the same category.

yes.

it does.

look up the definition of prejudice. you think that's fine, bully for you. If you want to argue it's a valid choice, that's also fine.

But it is prejudice.

And in my book you are poorer for it.

i'm not saying that i would treat those people as pariahs...i am saying that i would not date them...for goodness sake...they probably wouldn't want to date ME either.

and i'm saying that since you don't know anyone who has worked in that industry, and have no understanding of the circumstances that might make someone pay for sex, then you are taking a rather ridiculous position.

If you think that one event in a person's past makes them unsuitable for you, fine... i can't stop you.

I'm just saying i disagree with that position.
if that irks you, then tough.

did i say that i didn't know anyone in that industry?
i said i didn't know anyone who had paid for sex...not that i didn't know anyone who had accepted payment for it.
i have known former prostitutes through my prior work in the mental health field...that's how i also know that so many of them have been sexually abused and traumatized...as well as addicted to drugs. and they were not proud of what they had done...but they were so mentally and emotionally numb that it didn't matter while they were doing it. and to be honest, it sickens me that men took advantage of those women in that state.

To answer the original question, No. I would not feel comfortable becoming romantically involved with someone who paid for sex.

I need to respect the people I'm romantically involved with. I don't consider paying someone to sleep with you to be respectable behavior.

My opinion on this matter is completely separate from my opinions on prostitutes themselves.

girl, and are you still trying to say this *isn't* prejudice?

what isn't prejudice? if i were truly prejudiced against former sex workers...then i wouldn't have worked with and tried to help them in the past...and i did. so you are saying that i don't have a right to state that i wouldn't consort with men who exploit women who have been sexually abused and traumatized?

or are you referring to the fact that i said i wouldn't consort with a callboy either? because i would be concerned that he was equally traumatized and emotionally numb...since being a callboy isn't a profession that most men willingly choose.

or maybe the fact that i said that i wouldn't choose someone who has been with more than 20 partners? well...some people wouldn't want to be with someone who has been with more than 10...or 5...or 1. that doesn't make them prejudiced. it just means that they are selective.

nah, this is like trying to wrsetle with a jelly baby.

I'm done here.

Murphy, if someone wouldn't date a person who abused them, would that be prejudice too?

well, that's after the fact, no?

Apres-judice?

okay, someone who had abused their partners in the past, then. or someone who was a Nazi. or someone who weighed 9000 pounds. you're using the word "prejudice" in a way that, while maybe accurate in the dictionary definition of the word, it also carries pejorative connotations that i don't think are necessarily warranted in this case. anyone can choose to date or not date anyone they please for any reasons. it's their own business. everyone has their criteria for deciding whom they would like to date and whom they wouldn't. these are almost always entirely subjective. and there's not anything wrong with that.

ok...

true. This is the individuals right. However, i don't think the examples you give are quite the same. a person weighs 9000 pounds. a person who is a Nazi. An abusiver person is putting you at a serious physical risk.

These aren't analagous to someone who has paid for sex in the past.

However, what has got me going here is the constantly shifting reasoning behind her statement.

first it was the increased risk of disease.
then it was number of sexual partners.
then it was the reason the person had gone to a prostitute.
then it was that the poor prostitutes have a rotten time.

Some valid, some invalid. But the disease one was what annoyed me. once unclean, always unclean.

it's possible i am being over-harsh, here. If so, i'll try to roll out of the bad the other side and read fresh tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by aitapata:
To answer the original question, No. I would not feel comfortable becoming romantically involved with someone who paid for sex.

I need to respect the people I'm romantically involved with. I don't consider paying someone to sleep with you to be respectable behavior.

My opinion on this matter is completely separate from my opinions on prostitutes themselves.

Ditto, ditto, and ditto.

At the same time, I don't think my opinion on what's respectable should be law - I wish prostitution were legal in the US across the board. If it were regulated, prostitutes would be much safer.

*nods*
Legality *is* an issue. In my previous post i referred quite explicitly to *legal* prostitutes. Their circumstances are really *quite* a lot better than the picture Girl is painting.
In essence, i would never advise *anyone* to go to a prostitute, but if they do, i have no problem with it, as long as i'm not romantically involved with them *at that time*. (If i am involved with someone, and it's an exclusive relationship -which in my case it usually is- i would consider it cheating. Should we agree to an "open" relationship, i'd expect to be told, but pooh to me, for getting in an open relationship if i can't handle it.)Anyone who visits an *illegal* prostitute, who's being horribly exploited, in *this* city is an asshole, and i will have nothing to do with them (simply because if *that* turns a guy on, he should be thrown out of a window).

So, as BtB said, we're discussing a number of different issues here. Where i live, visiting a *legal* prostitute is usually safer than having fifteen casual flings. These women have health-insurance, are regularly tested and use condoms. Not so for most girls you pick up at the bar. So, naturally, my views on the subject are slightly different.

The number of sexual partners someone has had (before me) does -to my mind- *not* make someone unfaithful. Cheating makes someone unfaithful.
Having visited a prostitute is not something i necissarily *approve* of, but would not stand in the way of my having a relationship with a person.

Moreover, most of someones sexual past is none of my buisiness, as long as they are *tested* and are not in any way putting my health in danger. Ofcourse i'm curious and should like to know a little bit about the person i'm sleeping with, but i really don't need the specifics.

As for dating a callboy, i'm with Clover on this one. The only thing that would worry me, would be my own insecurities about measuring up in bed.

So, to my mind, some of the posts here presuppose that prostitution is *illegal* *unmonitored* and *unsafe*. As that isn't the case here, keep in mind my opinions are based on what i know of legal prostitution in my hometown.
There are several things that would make me uncomfortable getting involved with a man. If someone was a notorious cheat, i'd be uncomfortable. Yes. If he refused to use a condom and be tested, *go away and do not come back*. I demand respect and to be treated as a human-being, not a doll. Yes. Men who treat women like shit,who treat men like shit, who abuse people, who are cruel and off-hand about their relations. That would make me very angry.
Bisexuality or having a sexual past, however, will not stand in the way of my getting involved with someone.

quote:

Originally posted by thegirlthattimeforgot:

so you don't think prostitutes, porn stars or strippers are exploiting themselves? and that the results aren't hurtful to women in general?

I don't. Not at all.
Some are exploiting themselves, some are being exploited, a lot more others are just doing a job -for whatever reasons. Most of the people I know are doing a job they don't like, that does not fulfill them and which they would never have chosen themselves, but they find they have bills to pay or a mortgage or they want a certain way of life. I don't see any difference between them and someone who's in the sex industry/trade in that respect.
Some sex workes are or have been sexually exploited or abused, yes, but I would not say 'most of them', because I don't know, and unless you do for sure it's ridiculous to say (ie, info from statistics, not just the experience you had wokring in mental health -where a lot of people would have a traumatising past anyway, regardless of their job- or from a couple of biographies).

But you also said that these women 'chose to degrade themselves' and that they 'contribute to the exploitation of women', which is so outrageous that I'd rather think you were not thinking properly. (And, btw, I will admit that maybe some prostitutes or stripeprs degrade themselves and contribute to that -just as some models, actresses, lawyers, doctors, marketing managers, drivers... There's women who degrade themselves in every profesison and walk of life, but it has nothing to do with their profession but with their attitude towards other people, sex, their own worth, etc.)

Girl, it just looks from your post that anything that is not sex with True Love and a small amount of partners is wrong or bad or dirty. And you're in your right to live your life the way you want, but the moment you pass on judgements on other people's personality (being more prone to be unfaithful, being 'always in need of testing', still wanting to sleep with men...) just based on some even of their past is, indeed, prejudice.

quote:

Originally posted by aitapata:
I need to respect the people I'm romantically involved with. I don't consider paying someone to sleep with you to be respectable behavior.

Why?
Whats disreputable about paying for sex per se?

quote:

Originally posted by cloverheart:

quote:

Originally posted by thegirlthattimeforgot:

so you don't think prostitutes, porn stars or strippers are exploiting themselves? and that the results aren't hurtful to women in general?

I don't. Not at all.
Some are exploiting themselves, some are being exploited, a lot more others are just doing a job -for whatever reasons. Most of the people I know are doing a job they don't like, that does not fulfill them and which they would never have chosen themselves, but they find they have bills to pay or a mortgage or they want a certain way of life. I don't see any difference between them and someone who's in the sex industry/trade in that respect.
Some sex workes are or have been sexually exploited or abused, yes, but I would not say 'most of them', because I don't know, and unless you do for sure it's ridiculous to say (ie, info from statistics, not just the experience you had wokring in mental health -where a lot of people would have a traumatising past anyway, regardless of their job- or from a couple of biographies).

But you also said that these women 'chose to degrade themselves' and that they 'contribute to the exploitation of women', which is so outrageous that I'd rather think you were not thinking properly. (And, btw, I will admit that maybe some prostitutes or stripeprs degrade themselves and contribute to that -just as some models, actresses, lawyers, doctors, marketing managers, drivers... There's women who degrade themselves in every profesison and walk of life, but it has nothing to do with their profession but with their attitude towards other people, sex, their own worth, etc.)

Girl, it just looks from your post that anything that is not sex with True Love and a small amount of partners is wrong or bad or dirty. And you're in your right to live your life the way you want, but the moment you pass on judgements on other people's personality (being more prone to be unfaithful, being 'always in need of testing', still wanting to sleep with men...) just based on some even of their past is, indeed, prejudice.

well...i hate to say this...because it will incite a firestorm of criticism...but in my personal experience...the "cheaters" i have known (meaning those who cheated on my friends)...were not men who had few partners (because those men seem to value the ones they have more) but those who were what i refer to as the "Casanova" or "player" types. in other words, men who had been with a large number of women.
and i'm sorry...but i have known quite a few bisexuals who were not honest with their partners about their preference. for example, a former boss of mine who would tell me that she really wanted to be with a woman...but had married two different men...because it was easier for her to have children that way. or a male friend of a friend who was in a relationship with a woman but continued to have sex with men...without her knowledge...and she ended up with an STD. if someone agrees to be in an open relationship, then that is a different story...but i would never agree to that...even with a man who was completely heterosexual. for me, what is most important in a relationship is TRUST...and if i cannot trust a potential partner...then i would not enter into a relationship with him. i am very happy that i have never had to ask a potential sexual partner for an AIDs test...because i have always dealt with honest men who shared all the details of their sexual history with me.
and i guess this thread went through so many different permutations because i was trying to express what bothered me so much about the fact that a man would pay for sex...and i wondered how i would react if any man i knew told me he had done that.
people have the right to do what they like...if i fell in love with someone who had an extensive past and had done things which didn't meet my approval...then i would have to deal with that issue. but i'd rather prevent that from happening right from the start...because i know that i would be judgemental about it. that doesn't mean i have to accept or agree with the decisions he made...and he wouldn't have to accept or agree with my feelings about the matter. which is why it is probably best that people interact with those who share the same beliefs about sex and its meaning...that way no one gets hurt.

quote:

Originally posted by thegirlthattimeforgot:
for me, what is most important in a relationship is TRUST...and if i cannot trust a potential partner...then i would not enter into a relationship with him. i am very happy that i have never had to ask a potential sexual partner for an AIDs test...because i have always dealt with honest men who shared all the details of their sexual history with me.

Hon, the best any of us can hope for is that we hope our partners are honest. None of us can ever be 100% sure.