The main reason for this is to move the yelling to Flame Wars, and hopefully clear up that thread for discussion. Plus, I'm bored and feel like fuckin' with people.

Question:
Is Panda a horrible racist?

Choices:
Yes. Horrible, horrible, bad bad man-thing.
No. He's an OK racist.
No. He's a very good racist.
No. He's not racist at all.
I like red M&Ms!
No meat for you, two weeks!

 

Panda is just an idiot whose sweeping generalizations tend to be ignorant and unfounded.

So he fails at being a good racist.

Panda once took pictures of posters when they asked him not to.

He then posted the pictures on the board.

Most people would have gotten the hint when taking the pictures, and reasonable people with a sense of integrity would have delted the pictures there and then and apologised profusely.

This is just another example of his stupidity. The only reason Panda may be thought a racist is because of what Panda has posted, and his reaction when called to task.

I don't think he is a racist, but a monumental fuckwit with no social skills.

Here's a broad generalization.

Panda's not racist at all. Panda is a typical engineer. He can't spell and has shitty communication skills.

He's just misunderstood people.

but that's a stereotype about engineers.
i had a long relationship with one...and he could spell and had superb communication skills.

quote:

Originally posted by thegirlthattimeforgot:
but that's a stereotype about engineers.
i had a long relationship with one...and he could spell and had superb communication skills.

(Tongster and I are both engineers.)

I am in the middle of a serious boggling epiphany right now. I'm getting the serious feeling that my definition of "racist" may be different.

This is terrible and I am very disapointed in you.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Cable:

quote:

Originally posted by thegirlthattimeforgot:
but that's a stereotype about engineers.
i had a long relationship with one...and he could spell and had superb communication skills.

(Tongster and I are both engineers.)

i assumed that...hence the wink.

Um, yes, well, I've avoided posting in the other thread about racism in sexes... As I didn't want to make any sort of comments... but, well, perhaps "ignorant" is the best word, rather than racist. Perhaps narrow minded. Racist implies hatred... I don't really sense hatred. Whereas ignorant or narrow mindedness imply making stupid comments. That's more what it is.

It doesn't necessarily imply hatred. It's about prejudice.

Thinking things like "Japanese people are diligent" or "black people have rhythm" is also racist.

I hate these poster bashing threads. There are more civilized ways of criticising someone's behaviour, especially when most of us don't actually think he's a racist, or at least not a bigot.

This thread does no credit at all to us as a community and I hope the mods will remove it. However distasteful people might find the mindset they attribute to Panda, I find it equally - if not more - disturbing to someone being rounded on by a virtual mob.

I agree with you, First, but I must say that I find this statement rather puzzling coming from you. After all, you've always struck me as a libertarian to the max - and removing a thread would strike me as something you'd interpret as censorship in a different context. What makes this different for you?

Basically because in essence it's pure 'ad hominem' and strips Panda of his right to the presumption of innocence. It's all fine and dandy with me to have a thread denouncing racism but when we start to target individuals based on our own prejudicial perceptions aren't we being more than a tad hypocritical?

After all, I've never met Panda in person and I do not know him well enough to say whether or not he is a racist and it seems to me that far too many are willing to shout "J'accuse" simply because he sometimes steps outside the bounds of political correctness. Remember Indrid Cold?

This ought to be a place where it ought to be possible to raise uncomfortable questions and dispute common wisdom without being personally vilified for it. 'Let he who is without sin....' and so on is a fine sentiment but I find it depressing to see how many do think they are 'without sin' and stand ready with their brickbats.

And you'd be comfortable with the mods just shutting down the thread? I see your disagreement with what the thread is about, and I share it to a large extent, but as I said earlier, you've always struck me as a 'freedom fundamentalist' - you know, "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it etc. etc."

I can't argue with you there.

Oddly enough the thing that made me doubt this thread's sincerity was the rather startling baldness of the title. With people I know well - with good friends - if I thought they were being a bigot of any stripe (homophobic, racist, sexist, whatever) and I'd taken them aside and said gently that what I though they did was out of order, then that would be serious. If I smacked the back of their head in public and yelled "Don't be such an effing bigot/male chauvenist pig/whatever", then it would be much less challenging to them, if that makes any sense, and much more of a joke.

quote:

Originally posted by Thirith & His Enormous Tibia:
And you'd be comfortable with the mods just shutting down the thread? I see your disagreement with what the thread is about, and I share it to a large extent, but as I said earlier, you've always struck me as a 'freedom fundamentalist' - you know, "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it etc. etc."

Precisely but this thread isn't about questioning Panda's views but implicitly denouncing him as a person as being 'unfit for human society'. It's that personalization of an issue that I find goes beyond the pale. Criticize the argument but *not* the man.

Panda is now the 'poster child' for racism? Give the man a break! It does look a lot like a bunch of schoolkids picking on the fat kid or the one with the glasses and the stutter and that's an experience I know only too well.

I believe in freedom, but also that your freedom to swing your fists ends with the bridge of my nose. As the Smoking thread should illustrates I hold that there are lines in respect to the inalienable rights of the individual that should never be crossed even in the 'common good'.

I mean if it's okay to pick on Panda, who's going to be next when the sheep trot off to find a new whipping boy? It's a question of fairness and tolerance. Neither of which is being shown toward Panda.

quote:

Originally posted by The First of the Fallen:
I mean if it's okay to pick on Panda, who's going to be next when the sheep trot off to find a new whipping boy? It's a question of fairness and tolerance. Neither of which is being shown toward Panda.

I'm sorry that I'm still hijacking here - but quite frankly, Fallen, your position (while I fully agree with the sentiment) does smack of hypocrisy itself. Unless I remember incorrectly, you've criticised things such as the Swiss 'anti-racism laws' that make e.g. public (that is, addressed at the public) Holocaust revisionism, anti-semititic and racist statements illegal. (Of course it's not that simple, but again, that's a different discussion.) Wouldn't racist invective be at least as bad as this thread?

Thirith, there's a very real and fundamental difference between the right to express an idea and the direct abuse of a particular person. The former is essential if you believe that people have a right to choose for themselves what they want to believe and by extension who they want to vote for (As opposed to having that choice made for them by their 'betters'). There's a difference between excoriating X's policies and stating the X ought to be assassinated.

Personal vilification is the very antithesis of free speech because it's aim is to shut down another person's expression of their views through intimidation. Just because no-one here is wearing an armband and throwing bricks through shop windows doesn't mean people aren't being silenced. This 'browbeating' of Panda is just a more insidious, less obviously objectionable fascism. No more, no less.

Always stand up for the underdog, because you never know when you`re going to be one.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Schrödinger's Cat,

This thread will not be removed due to popular outcry. Threads have been posted here questioning whether I am trying to remake this message board as a place that's only comfortable for Christian fundamentalists. Posters deliberately mocked my wife in that thread, one going so far as to mock the sexual relationship my wife and I "must" have. An entire thread was dedicated to comparing me to a conservative talk show host. I did not remove those threads or those posts. If I can live with the offense of them, then so can Panda, and if he can't, then his process of maturing to the point where he is able begins today.

To reiterate, this thread will not be removed due to popular outcry. If Tongster were to request it, and could give good, valid reasons for its removal, we might consider its removal.