Ever since Elizabeth voiced concern about me going on a date to X-men with my X husband. I have had more than 500 footprints in my blog from nosey World Enders. Most of whom haven't left an opinion in my blog but it is enough that I know there is gossip going on and people who have opinions on how I should handle my ex husband.

I find when members of my family focus on a family members imperfect relationships or situations it is usually to divert people from noticing something that is going on in the sidelines in their own lives. So yes, I have questioned some of the concerns aimed at me as truly being sincere. I am 43-years old and I wasn't born yesterday.

20-years-ago I worked in a collective restaurant where people would target and gossip about a person who they decided was fucking up. Usually it would start with one individual starting the gossip, exaggerating their concerns and then focus a group intervention and they'd gang up on the person with there voiced concerns.

I learned to recognize these patterns in groups since. It has a lot to do with why I am more of a hermit these days.

Silverfoot, BeeZee, and Jasmine the 3 of you have taken things I wrote in my blog to personally when I was reacting to Elizabeth after she wrote this in my blog;

quote:

Honestly, and this comes from a place of love and concern, you have got to get away from all these negative people in your life--and I mean the people you blog about, not Beezerbub or me or anyone else you're angry at--or you will never be happy. Maybe Steven and certain family members will always be there, on the edges, but the longer you let them take up so much energy and time, the longer you will be unwell. And I mean health-wise too--my health improved loads when I moved away. Think about it: isn't it easier--and aren't you falling into this trap--to get angry at people who speak unpleasant truths rather than be angry at the people who are actually hurting you? So, fine, I will not comment ever again, and I will stay out of your life and blog; but you have lost a friend here, not an enemy. I hope you are happy someday. And I don't take back anything I have said here, ever, as it was said out of concern, love and, yes, my own experience. Goodbye and good luck to you.

This is what made me feel that true friends don't stop being friends after one little spat." It set up a series of reactions from me in my blog and then reactions from others reacting to what I wrote.

FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW ME;HERE IS A BRIEF HISTORY

My ex husband has never hit me. He has gotten abusive verbally. He has driven crazy when mad which is his only form of physical abuse towards me. That is dangerous so he can be scary.

The children feel like he is abusive to them but really I have no physical evidence of him hurting them. I just believe them first before I believe him because I was an abused child. He claims they accuse him because they like stirring up trouble between us. I have seen my daughter first hand try to cause trouble between her aunt and I, that way (this winter) and I know my children aren't always angels either.

When he was investigated for abuse the authorities acted like he and I have different opinions on child discipline. He still has legal rights to see his children and in order to take those rights away I have to have evidence. he took parenting classes last year. he has a rich family and could probably get himself a good lawyer.

I come from a family in poverty. I would have to depend on legal aid and I know from past experience that they don't do much compared to a paid attorney.

Until my children are grown I have to deal with him on weekends. I rather be around him when he is with the children but sometimes my son chooses to stay at his dads.

I was with Steven for 14 years. He didn't start out mean. We were very much in love. It wasn't until my son Seamus was born 11 years ago before I started seeing signs of his abusive behavior or need to be controlling. It started during a trip to see his parents in LA. He got mad at me in the car and we almost had an accident. Still he was great after we got home and I decided not to leave him. Then he started leaving me alone with the children at the farm all the time claiming he was working. He started losing his temper if I didn't clean the house and he didn't like my art and kept accidentally destroying paintings and masks. Eventually all my masks were destroyed. He was pretending he wasn't Christian because I was raised pagan. After I divorced him he admitted he was Christian and remains one to this day. I don't think he understands his religion well though.

I left him 2 years ago when he started drinking daily. He wouldn’t act drunk but it made him act meaner than he had been before.

He quit drinking after I left him. He got back with his other ex-wife from 20 years ago. They have a daughter who is grown but they only stayed married for 3 months. She was abusive to my children, tried to push her Christian faith on my children and she talked my ex into gutting the house we own and burning the children’s and my stuff.

That summer he took anger management classes and parenting classes with his spouse Irene.

He went back to the West coast with her but returned here alone last spring. We dealt with each other on weekends and sometimes weekdays, we had power struggles over the kids, and tried to get along as much as we could.

My health was getting bad like it often does in winter. I had no transportation. He started trying to make things up to us and being helpful. Last fall he got threatened by two men who were showing interest in me. He started hanging out with us daily. He chased the two men off. One moved to Minneapolis but calls me often.

This past winter we tried getting back together but I broke up with him within a two weeks. He tried to move in on me, almost got me kicked out of my home, he got kicked out of my home but can come for weekend visits with his son. He behaved a bit like a stalker but backed off when I accused him of stalking and threatened to get a restraining order.

I found other means of transportation so I can be less dependant on him. Sure I have to struggle with him a lot. That isn't unusual when 2 people are divorced and one is a manipulative control freak.

I vent about it in my blog.

Ok , I went to a movie with him last weekend. We do sometimes still have fun together but it doesn't mean I will suddenly let him try to move in on me again. We are not lovers right now. He has friends he rather hang out with than me. There are women who call him. I don't feel threatened by him right now or like he is my biggest problem right now.

For me my biggest problem is getting my physical health back. I started seeing a chiropractor, I plan to start swimming again at the YMCA. I am feeling much better the past few days. I don't feel like my life is in crisis but in my blog I am being treated like there is a crisis with Steven.

Since most of the 500 footprints in my blog the past few days came from Worlds End I am taking the issue out of my blog and putting it here. Why? because my blog feels like Flame Wars the past few days.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dragons Bard,

I don't mind people commenting in my blog. Most of the time many people don't even read or comment on my blog. Then boom the past 3 days it has had more activity than it has had all year. It started from comments from World Enders. I brought the issue here because I decided it would be interesting if some people who have lurked and maybe some men got involved in the conversation. After all the footprints that frequent my blog the past few days have come from people who hang out here.

At first I didn’t appreciate the feedback and advice but today I thought maybe it isn’t so bad if I get even more feedback from here. I guess I feel like I am being told by certain World End Women that I should be shutting my ex completely out of my life. That I shouldn't let him take me to movies now that we are split up. Since he might get the wrong ideas and invade my space. Plus he has come close to stalking and has lied, shown signs of abusive tendencies.

Basically I'd call him a Jeckle/Hyde.

I communicate my feelings well with my ex (Steven) I don't think he is getting any wrong ideas just because I went to a movie with him. We have children together and it would be very difficult to shut him out of my life and as long as he lives in MN I legally can not move to far from him without his consent because he has visitation rights with his children.

Now I'd like to have empathy and look from his perspective. No one has ever left me and if I was in love with someone whom I expected to spend my lifetime with and that individual left me. I don't know how I would react. I have had unrequited loves reject me and throw me off balance a bit but that isn't quite the same as someone you spent years with just up and leaving you. Would you hope they stayed friends? Hope they give you another chance if you promise to go to group therapy, parenting classes, or take classes on anger management. Those are things my ex has done since I left him.

Most people who are accused of being abusive don't even think they are abusive. They act like they feel persecuted and falsely accused. I know Steven feels that way. In his eyes I am the one lying about him. Persecuting him and branding him an abuser.

y'know, i wasn't going to say anything in your blog because i knew from fairly bitter experience that the last people you listen to when you're in an abusive relationships are those who are telling you to get out of that relationship.

therefore, you can guess that i'm going to tell you whatever Steven thinks or feels about his behaviour, it is terribly clear to the rest of us that he IS an abusive man. just because he ain't hittin' you doesn't mean he isn't being abusive. talk to me sometime about the phsychological scars i've been left with by a guy who would never have DREAMT of laying a finger on me.

i have subscribed to your blog for a long time, and i rarely if ever visit people's blogs directly, except when i wish to leave a comment. But quite frankly, i was going to leave a comment on yours until i realised that if i had written down the things i was thinking at the time, i'd have left my university library in tears, and that wasn't something i wanted yesterday. and if you're using your blog to vent, but don't want the comments of people who love you, make it private. don't give out details in public unless you want to make that invitation to respond. because people care about you, they WILL respond. because you are somewhat blind to what Steven is doing, you won't like what they say. live with it or change it.

but i'm not going to stop thinking, whether it's in the privacy of my own head or out loud, that you need to stop letting this guy have so much access to your life. your kids have the right to see him, he has the right to see them? FINE. utterly fine.
but don't, for goodness sake, keep letting him into your house. arrange for him to see the kids elsewhere. stop getting so close to him. for your own sake.

quote:

At first I didn’t appreciate the feedback and advice but today I thought maybe it isn’t so bad if I get even more feedback from here. I guess I feel like I am being told by certain World End Women that I should be shutting my ex completely out of my life.

I assume that I'm one of those of whom you speak. I thought we'd made it relatively clear that we were - all three of us - coming from very similiar situations to yours. We're not trying to 'gang up on you' we were only trying to help. I'm not saying you should shut him out of your life - I know he needs access to his children etc. But I *am* pointing out that you shouldn't allow him such easy access to your life...it allows him a way to still control you, and make you dependant on him. At least to some extent...and I will admit that it is baffling to me *why* you would want any more contact than necessary with someone who you openly admit is a "manipulative control freak"

As others have said, physical abuse is not the only form of abuse...and verbal/physcological is *much* worse. I'd rather have someone hit me...bruises heal...emotional/mental damage toakes MUCH longer. I was lent a book once, called "The Verbally Abusive Relationship: how to recongise it, and how to deal"...when I was in trouble with just such a thing. You might want to look into it. You'd be surpised how much you just deal with and accept that you really shouldn't. Emotional abusers have excellent at making deals and promising never to do it again...this in turn lulls you into a sense of security for a while until the next outbreak. You're often left feeling everything is your fault, everything is because of you, and that of course they're in teh right - or well within their rights. It doesn't occur to you otherwise because hey, this person loves you right? Look at all he tries to do for you? Can't he be forgiven for backsliding once and a while...

By saying that we would stay away - that wasn't breaking off a friendship (at least not in my case) it was respecting a friend's wishes. I think what Elizabeth's orginal comment meant was more along the lines of "please realise that we're not parting on bad terms, and that I've done nothing but try to help. And if you ever really need me, you know how to reach me"...not anything harsh or accusatory.

If that's taking it personally...well, I suppose I've always taken things too personally...

But this:

quote:

I find when members of my family focus on a family members imperfect relationships or situations it is usually to divert people from noticing something that is going on in the sidelines in their own lives. So yes, I have questioned some of the concerns aimed at me as truly being sincere. I am 43-years old and I wasn't born yesterday.

I think I have some right to take a bit personally. When I express concern for someone it is *always* genuine.Despite being younger than you, I wasn't born yesterday either. I have a bit of a radar system going, if you want to know why - then ask me and I'll gladly tell you, it's not the kind of thing I want to air out in public. I am hyper alert to when people are going down a similiar path that I took - if in a different situation. It's part of my nature to try to help. I take some offense to that concern being labelled as 'nosey'...and I make a point of not gossiping. For the most part because I've been gossiped about, and I know how much it hurts. My concerns about you were not brought about from hearing about your situation from anyone else, I read your entry on my subs list...was concerned...and posted a comment. yes, I read what others had said, but it had no influence whatsoever on what I said...in fact, for the most part I read the other comments *after* I'd posted my own.

Please don't label me as a gossip because I chose to comment now instead of earlier when I've had similiar thoughts...

Keep in mind that people who read your blog soley through the 'read your subscriptions' page don't show up on footprints (and that the footprints thing is still quite inaccurate in a lot of cases). It's quite possible that people who read you through subscriptions all the time (of which I am one) simply want to see what is going on and see if anything they could say would add anything to the discussion...*or* find that once they get to the comments page that they have nothing suitable to say. I wouldn't automatically put it down to gossiping nosey-ness.

If you think I'm diverting attention from my own problems by trying to help you with yours, I invite you to read my own blog - I'm totally honest about how *good* my life is right now. I have nothing to divert *from*.

And even those who *do* have other ugly things going on in their lives...I don't believe that makes their concern for you any less genuine. Their choice to focus on other peoples problems instead of their own has nothing to do with you...it's their choice...it does not mean their concern or their ablity to help you is any less real.


Limertilly has said everything else that I could think of to say perfectly. I won't repeat what's already been said..

But keep in mind Gayle, we try to help because we've *been* there, and I don't think any of us want to see a loved one go down that very steep very slippery slope...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lady Jasmine,

Gayle, I said I was done before Elizabeth commented.

And done I am. I have never said anything to anyone else about you, and only said directly to you what I thought. So no, I'm not gossiping.

And I can only go by what you have said.

*shrugs again*

IMO, (as a parent) the first job is to protect your kids.

What you do with your life is up to you.

quote:

Since most of the 500 footprints in my blog the past few days came from Worlds End I am taking the issue out of my blog and putting it here. Why? because my blog feels like Flame Wars the past few days.

uh... so is it that you are upset people are reading it..
or aren't...
Or aren't commenting...
or are commenting and agreeing or disagreeing?

Or have only read because it's been discussed here?

*confused*

Beezee and Jasmine I am sorry but I get a bit hyper sensitive because of my past experience in that collective. That I was once a part of. I was once a victem of one of their so called group interventions which turned into a group attack. The meeting started with people acting concerned about me. All of a sudden people were complaining, you play to much music, you talk to much, you work to long at night, ( I worked to long at night because I was cleaning hoods, refridgerators, walls and under appliances). The meeting was instigated by some people who were mad at me for something completely different than what their meeting was about. I didn't want the collective to hire a guy who had raped a woman in a different collective. They hired him and I had to work with him at night. I ended up quiting the night after the meeting. They didn't pass their next health inspection after I quit. Their night business went down hill after I left and now they only serve breakfast. The guy flipped out soon after and attacked many of the peole who defended him. Several people apologized to me a month later.

When people start acting concerned about me all at once the scars from that situation make me not trust the situation. I apologize BeeZee, Jasmine Silverfoot, I know you were sincere.

quote:

Originally posted by Murphy:

quote:

Since most of the 500 footprints in my blog the past few days came from Worlds End I am taking the issue out of my blog and putting it here. Why? because my blog feels like Flame Wars the past few days.

uh... so is it that you are upset people are reading it..
or aren't...
Or aren't commenting...
or are commenting and agreeing or disagreeing?

Or have only read because it's been discussed here?


*confused*

I was upset when I felt like I was being gossiped about but I'm not upset right now.I just don't feel like discussing it in my blog right now and I can get more feedback here.

Plus I felt like it could be a good way for people to discuss abuse.I know men get abused too but you don't hear about it as much.

I know a couple I lived with where the woman went around convincing people he abuses her but I found out the truth by living with them. She was constantly verbally abusing him and whining at him to slave after her and he would.He did anything she wanted. I saw her beat the crap out of him a few times. They are still together after 25 years of her treating him like that.The only reason I put up with her is because I care about him and their grown children.

quote:

Originally posted by Dragons Bard:
Beezee and Jasmine I am sorry but I get a bit hyper sensitive because of my past experience in that collective. That I was once a part of. I was once a victem of one of their so called group interventions which turned into a group attack. The meeting started with people acting concerned about me. All of a sudden people were complaining, you play to much music, you talk to much, you work to long at night, ( I worked to long at night because I was cleaning hoods, refridgerators, walls and under appliances). The meeting was instigated by some people who were mad at me for something completely different than what their meeting was about. I didn't want the collective to hire a guy who had raped a woman in a different collective. They hired him and I had to work with him at night. I ended up quiting the night after the meeting. They didn't pass their next health inspection after I quit. Their night business went down hill after I left and now they only serve breakfast. The guy flipped out soon after and attacked many of the peole who defended him. Several people apologized to me a month later.

When people start acting concerned about me all at once the scars from that situation make me not trust the situation. I apologize BeeZee, Jasmine Silverfoot, I know you were sincere.

Just a thought Dragon's Bard, you may want ot post this bit to your blog...as I know Silver for one doesn't read here a lot...nor do some of the others that were (for lack of a better word) involved...

And thank you, apology accepted.