1602 characters weren't actually all that bad. As far as they were thought up well and installed fairly well.

The only problem i've had with 1602 and it's the same problem witht he Ultimate Marvel universe is that it follows the origninal marvel universe far too much. honestly it isn't all that original.

true there are some original aspects to it but on a whole.. it's just so much of the same. There is so much they could have done with the 1602 universe and story. They most definatly should have expanded it. it was over far too quickly, and honestly felt rushed because of it.

plus the way they included captain america was really really cheap. I liked the story up until the point where they included time travel. then it really fizzed out for me. I remember when i was seeing the previews for it and i saw who would would become virginia dare and her protector and i thought.. it was hawkeye and mockingbird.. at least i was hoping ah well heh.

if it had actually taken the characters and done something diffrent with them rather than aping the marvel universe far too much...

wow kenny grey.. i mean jean grey dies yet again.. *feigns shocked look* can't people do anything other than kill off the poor girl? you know just something other than that.. for show of some instance of originallity? just a little.. wouldn't take much skill.

although considering Gaiman's skill i almost would think marvel forced him to write the story that way.

huh? they let Grant Morrison kill off Magneto... why would they 'force' Neil to do something?

i've said it before and i've said it agian: Marvel needs to bring back WHAT IF? or do their own version of DC's ELSEWORLDS. Same heroes, completly different setting. Its fun

Lets keep it simple folks...
Neil loves Marvel characters.
Neil loves history and fantasy.
Why not put them together?
This was a "love letter" of sorts to these characters.
Until Bucky and Gwen get married, make mine Marvel.

hehehe... that sig thing rocks

i STILL haven't read this comic. i keep meaning to, but i've been a bit out of comics lately. my Marvel addiction has been satisfied by the movies

Well, 1602 came in the mail today and I read the entire thing. I loved it, a lot. I have a fairly broad knowlege of the Marvel universe, although it may be a bit dated. But asides from that, the historical part was absolutely ridiculously cool! Go take an early modern european course and I'm sure you'll all come around. Plus, the little comic of Neil at the back was hilarious, although he looks a bit like a member of the Ramones, which is equally cool.

I'm 21 and just getting into comics myself, and so far I haven't even begun to touch on any of the classic Marvel works. I know my X-Men from tv and the movies, same with Spider-Man and all that jazz, but the few comics I've read so far have been Sandman, 1602, Fables, Watchmen, stuff like that.
That being said, I enjoyed 1602 for two reasons. First of all. since this is, in all effect, the begining of all of these characters stories, you don't need to know anything about anyone to understand and enjoy them. The number one reason I have never read comics before now is that I never knew where to start (now I've got a girlfriend who is a comic junkie to lead me on my way), and I fealt like this was a nice introduction to the world for me. I know a bit about the characters, now I want to learn their pasts.
And that brings me to the second reason why I enjoyed it. Now that I know a bit, I want more. I was so engaged by the different characters and plot lines that I can hardly sit still knowing that Big Brain comics is just a short drive away. I want to know all the stories, and all the little jokes that I didn't get, and all the subtext, and I feel like that is where this book really shined.
So my girlfriend is going to be busy now finding me old marvel stuff to read, but in the mean time, I'd love some suggestions from those of you who feel like you can lead me on the right path.
Thanks!
Oh, and I guess there are three things I loved about this book, the third being the art. A+ performance, I thought it was jaw-droppingly beautiful. Thanks to Neil, Andy and Richard for this one.

Barnes and Noble publishes 'Essential' collections of Marvel stuff, but they're in black and white, which kinda sucks
grab all the early Spider-Man you can... its been reprinted, and i love it to death. any Lee/Ditko stuff is good. for more 'serious' plotlines, you'll want 'The Death of Gwen Stacey' and 'Kraven's Last Hunt'
Daredevil? two words: Frank Miller. He wrrote the good stuff. Bendis' new stuff is good, too
X-Men? Dark Phoneix Saga

the new Ultimate line is pretty darn cool, and its got all your fave Vertigo writers (except Neil)... but its more of a restart
avoid the Clone Saga at all costs

alright... i read the comic, and Thirith is probably right... i really only enjoyed the comic so much 'cause i LOVE Marvel. i love these characters; i love seeing them do cool stuff; i love matt murdoch as a bard; i love Peter Parker as... anything, radioactive spider or non radioactive spider

only stuff i didn't like was mundane history. and a bit of the time travel

but yeah... if you don't care about Marvel, i guess it wouldn't appeal. but i looked, and Neil said he intended it as a love letter to Marvel... and he dedicates it to Kirby/Ditko/Lee... and stuff like the X-Men showing up being the ORIGINAL team was so cool. and the Savage Land! woohoo!

alright. sorry... what i'm saying is, this thread is right.. it is kinda a fanboy thing

quote:

Originally posted by Tlön:
but yeah... if you don't care about Marvel, i guess it wouldn't appeal. but i looked, and Neil said he intended it as a love letter to Marvel... and he dedicates it to Kirby/Ditko/Lee... and stuff like the X-Men showing up being the ORIGINAL team was so cool. and the Savage Land! woohoo!

If it was intended as a tribute to 'old' Marvel then it would have helped if they got an artist like Mike Mignola to do the drawings - he can do a fantastic Kirby impression. The art in the 1602 series was VERY bland compared to someone like Mignola.

hmm... you've got a point... or call up Mike Allred again? the one flash of classic Ditko style Strange made me happy

on a related note, remember Merv Pumpkinhead: Agent of D.R.E.A.M.?

quote:

Originally posted by Tlön:
Barnes and Noble publishes 'Essential' collections of Marvel stuff, but they're in black and white, which kinda sucks
grab all the early Spider-Man you can... its been reprinted, and i love it to death. any Lee/Ditko stuff is good. for more 'serious' plotlines, you'll want 'The Death of Gwen Stacey' and 'Kraven's Last Hunt'
Daredevil? two words: Frank Miller. He wrrote the good stuff. Bendis' new stuff is good, too
X-Men? Dark Phoneix Saga

the new Ultimate line is pretty darn cool, and its got all your fave Vertigo writers (except Neil)... but its more of a restart
avoid the Clone Saga at all costs

I don't like the Ultimate line, save for the Ultimates, although I really do dislike Millar.

Daredevil: Daredevil Yellow is an essential view of the character and his beginnings. Some of Frank Miller's stuff I like, but it's not all that needed for the understanding. Smith's Guardian Devil is another one of my favorites, and Bendis' Decalougue is up there, even though Bendis isn't my friend in most other things than Powers.

Spider-Man: If you want it brief and simpler, then yeah, go for the Ultimates. but if you want to understand about the character and who Peter Parker is, I'd suggest Spider-Man: Blue by Loeb, Torment by McFarlane, and the Masterworks TPB.

X:Men - Morrison changed everything around. That's something you'll have to understand. He did it with Doom Patrol, too.

What you reall need is The Dark Phoenix storyline, The Hated and Feared storyline and God Loves, Man Kills. If you Really want to get into it, Marvel released the entire AoA storyline in a huge volume to coincide with House of M.
and there's a TPB called Vinettes which I like on top of that.

but with all of these, and not only marvel, there's nothing to be lost in taking in as much as you can.

Which is where I come in with giving more respect to Gaiman's 1602.
what he basically did was take a loose plot from an obscure What If? issue and packaged it as an entire series.


Oh and also, Allred's been hard at work with The Golden Plates, his study of Mormonism, and I don't think he'll take work until it's done. I don't know if he committed to doing anything Madman! for Dark Horse, but due to the response in 2003 for the annual issue, they stand to make an immense profit if he does.

quote:

Originally posted by 22down:
Which is where I come in with giving more respect to Gaiman's 1602.
what he basically did was take a loose plot from an obscure What If? issue and packaged it as an entire series.

ahhhh... hence Uahatu, who introduced all the What If? comics?

i miss that series... i had some good ones... What If Spider-Man Never Lost His Extra Arms? was fun

quote:

Originally posted by Tlön:

quote:

Originally posted by 22down:
Which is where I come in with giving more respect to Gaiman's 1602.
what he basically did was take a loose plot from an obscure What If? issue and packaged it as an entire series.

ahhhh... hence Uahatu, who introduced all the What If? comics?

i miss that series... i had some good ones... What If Spider-Man Never Lost His Extra Arms? was fun

Yeah. The basic set up was underlined in "What if....Steve Rodgers ran for President?"

they pulled out some TPBs for classic and newer What Ifs last year, I believe.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunset Knight:
1602 characters weren't actually all that bad. As far as they were thought up well and installed fairly well.

The only problem i've had with 1602 and it's the same problem witht he Ultimate Marvel universe is that it follows the origninal marvel universe far too much. honestly it isn't all that original.

true there are some original aspects to it but on a whole.. it's just so much of the same. There is so much they could have done with the 1602 universe and story. They most definatly should have expanded it. it was over far too quickly, and honestly felt rushed because of it.

plus the way they included captain america was really really cheap. I liked the story up until the point where they included time travel. then it really fizzed out for me. I remember when i was seeing the previews for it and i saw who would would become virginia dare and her protector and i thought.. it was hawkeye and mockingbird.. at least i was hoping ah well heh.

if it had actually taken the characters and done something diffrent with them rather than aping the marvel universe far too much...

wow kenny grey.. i mean jean grey dies yet again.. *feigns shocked look* can't people do anything other than kill off the poor girl? you know just something other than that.. for show of some instance of originallity? just a little.. wouldn't take much skill.

although considering Gaiman's skill i almost would think marvel forced him to write the story that way.

I think this post really summed it up tight for me and my feelings.