Has anything been done with Mystique yet?

Excelsior!

~~~~~~~~~

Join the Church of the Risen Morrison!

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Hey thats me and I want you only
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Nope, no Mystique.

The characters used so far: Cap, classic X-Men, Fury, Strange, Spidey, DD, Black Widow, Doom, Foggy, FF, Vulture, Clea, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch... that's all I can think of without checking... plus I'm sure some of the others are existing Marvels who jus t haven't been revealed yet (Inquisitor, etc.)

***"Well, seeing that today certainly is my day - why don't you call me Wednesday? Mister Wednesday. Although given the weather, it might as well be Jcizenman, eh?"***

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Here's my current working theory to explain how the Marvel characters find themselves in 1602:

I'm guessing the story takes place shortly after the silver-age revival of the Red Skull (Tales of Suspense 79 - 81). It would involve the use of the Cosmic Cube and is probably an attempt to cripple England before it becomes more of a world power and also potentially prevent England from colonizing America.

This would make the Old Man the Red Skull, the Knights Templar would be "Them" (the secret society that revived the Red Skull in TofS 79), The Hashasin might correspond to the assasins the Red Skull sent to kill Captain America in the TofS story line). The Red Skull basically only cooperates with "Them" so that he can steal the Cosmic Cube fro AIM. Perhaps he's only cooperating with the Knights Templar in order to get the Cosmic Cube to London.

This still begs the question why would so many Marvel characters -- especially ones that the Red Skull would not have encountered by 1966 -- be dragged into the 1602 timeline.

quote:

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Originally posted by Halexx:
I am, at this point, believing that the 1602 story 'happened'' for real, and for some reason(like Heroes Reborn) they kind of like 'reincarnate'' in 1950-60...

---

There are those who have a theory (those like me) that the "this has happened before" nature of the comics thus far are leading up to something massive in the Marvel continuity. Neil has gone on record saying that this is NOT a What If... story and that this is a real part of the Marvel Universe.

The massive event that I was speaking about is that in the end of this book they're going to begin a phase of the Marvel U that will ultimate bring every Marvel book to a close. They're hitting the reset button. This is Marvel's version of DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths. There's a lot of really awful plot arcs happening in Marvel right now and they've put their own properties in situations impossible to repair and restore dignity to. Marvel has had wild success with it's line of Ultimate books which, essentially, retell the tale of old Marvel properties (Ultimate X-Men is a GREAT book right now!). It's not unreasonable to believe that they are considering shaking up the company and starting clean from the beginning. All Marvel books will become Ultimate books.

I believe that the end of 1602 will reveal some kind of apocalyptic outcome that basically reset the Elizabethan period of the Marvel Universe. This great weapon that the Templars are hiding in 1602 is, quite possibly the Ultimate Nullifier. Look it up if you're unfamiliar.

On a side note, I see that some members here are including the Fantastic Four in their character sighting lists. Have I missed them? It would seem that they're always mentioned in passing and that the loss of the four was a HUGE blow to England.

Also, where was Foggy Nelson?

edit: This thought also just struck me. I don't know if anyone has pointed it out yet so if so, please excuse me.

The three assassins all look suspiciously like The Vulture. The second assassin in issue 2, especially.

Somthing worth noting about the Vulture's existence in the Marvel Universe is that he has had three different incarnations since his first appearance. Makes ya think, no?

Of course, it's more likely that the first assassin was The Chameleon.

further edit: The Grand Inquisitor is quite clearly Magneto. Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are his children in the modern comics. It makes perfect sense that Grand Inquisitor has no problem harboring mutants who serve his cause and NOT Javier's.

Also, Virginia Dare isn't Snowbird. Snowbird wasn't introduced until the late 70's. I'm thinking that she's Neil's creation.

[This message was edited by Rapscallion No Kaiju on September 19, 2003 at 08:19 PM.]

correction: After further speculation, I'm guessing that the first assassin was more likely to be Toad.

Carry on.

after getting the assignment from fury, Daredevil travels on a boat piloted by "Captain Nelson"

***"Well, seeing that today certainly is my day - why don't you call me Wednesday? Mister Wednesday. Although given the weather, it might as well be Jcizenman, eh?"***

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Also, the FF don't technically show up, but they are mentioned on a couple of occasions.

Daredevil is shown on two seperate occasions to be singing the "Ballad of the Fantastick", with lyrics that make it quite clear who it's about.

Also, Fury says in #1 "I wish Reed were still here", and Doom mentions in #2 that he has destroyed them, or some such.

***"Well, seeing that today certainly is my day - why don't you call me Wednesday? Mister Wednesday. Although given the weather, it might as well be Jcizenman, eh?"***

All hail the mighty Citron!
http://www.chenjiyue.com

In the first issue, in Doc Strange surreal flight, i think we see the F4 in a cavern,''in the heart of a mountain, far from here, a place built to hold Earth and Air, Water and Fire''

Theyre coming back in the story will probably be an important moment in it.Would have they been the one's to find the Treasure first?

For Virginia, we will know who she is in issue 4, ref marvel.com comming soon list.

[Also, Virginia Dare isn't Snowbird. Snowbird wasn't introduced until the late 70's. I'm thinking that she's Neil's creation.

Virginia Dare was a real person. She was the first British colonist born in America. Making Captain America her body guard was a storke of genius, tho.

memento mori

i'm pleased as punch with 1602. i especially like that i don't have to ask my comic book geek friend about who's who.

natasha (the woman in the carriage with matt)-black widow

I don't think Magneto is the grand inquisitor. i find it hard to believe he would somehow be behind the mass slaughter of mutants. but it could perhaps be a ruse. who knows?

I believe Magneto is the Grand Inquisitor, and I see nothing inconsistent in his character with him hunting down the witchbreed. He lays it out to Wanda: if you're on his side, you are of the chosen and will help him rule the world. If you're not, you'll be destroyed. It's the same as the Magneto of our time, who also went after those mutants he couldn't convert.

Magneto didn't hunt down and slaughter opposing mutants indiscriminately. He only took out other mutants if they were getting in his way. I can't recall a single instance where Magneto has hunted and killed a mutant just because they wouldn't join him, especially if they didn't join the other side, either. The Inquisitor's behavior is totally inconsistent with Magneto's.

That said, it is conceivable that in this version, Erik doesn't have mutant powers...

***"Well, seeing that today certainly is my day - why don't you call me Wednesday? Mister Wednesday. Although given the weather, it might as well be Jcizenman, eh?"***

All hail the mighty Citron!
http://www.chenjiyue.com

Is clearly the Grand Inquisitor. Hands down.

M.

memento mori

For the most part I'd agree that Magneto is the Grand Inquisitor. Two things give me pause: 1. He appears too old given the relative ages of the other Marvel characters. 2. The characters that are easily identified and that most people are in agreement about are all characters that have had some kind of interaction with Spiderman in the Silver-Age Marvel universe. I'm pretty sure Magneto didn't.

After reading issue 3 and seeing The Watcher, I fear this is all a big "What If" as he would begin those stories in a similar manner.

Anyone else have this thought? Is there any evidence to the contrary?

Neil said, very specifically, in numerous interviews, that this was <I>not</I> a What if? story.

- John Urbancik
author of Sins of Blood and Stone

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I read issue 3.

ah! i don't want to spoil it but um, I really loved the most dangerous woman in europe bit. ^_^
aaaaaaaaaand nick at the end. yay!

Hey all, this is the list I've been running for us over at MillarWorld.biz. I haven't had time to go through issue #3 yet, but here's my list. One of the ones few people agree on is the identity of the Assassin #1 that attacked Sir Fury in the first issue, but I'm pretty sure it was The Vanisher.

Sir Nicholas Fury - Nick Fury
Doctor Stephen Strange - Dr. Strange
Old Man - Thor, perhaps Odin?
Peter Parquagh - Peter Parker (Spider-Man)
Count Otto "The Handome" Von Doom - Dr. Doom
Matthew "Sir Devil" Murdoch - Matt Murdock (Daredevil)
Clea - Clea
Sister Wanda - Wanda Maximoff (Scarlet Witch)
Petros - Pietro Maximoff (Quicksilver)
Carlos Javier - Professor Charles Xavier (Professor X)
Grand Inquisitor - Magneto
James of Scotland - real person
Rojhaz - Steve Rogers (Captain America)
Virginia Dare - real person
Assassin #1 - Vanisher
Captain Nelson - Foggy Nelson
Scotius Summerisle - Scott Summers (Cyclops)
Robert Trefusis - Bobby Drake (Iceman)
John Grey - Jean Grey
Sir Werner - Warren Worthington III (Angel)
Sir Reed - Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic)
Master McCoy - Hank McCoy (Beast)
Natasha - Natasha Romanoff (Black Widow)
David (King James' assistant) - ?
Uncle Benjamen - Ben Parker
Assassin #2 - Vulture
Bird Creature - Phoenix?

--
Ryan Higgins
Comics Conspiracy
"You get a lifetime"

Well, just read #3. So, the bird creature is Virginia. The only other characters introduced in the issue were Brother Tomas, the guards, and the Pope was mentioned a few times. I don't think any of them have MU counterparts, and I'm not sure who the Pope was in 1602. Oh yeah, and you can see The Watcher's head.

--
Ryan Higgins
Comics Conspiracy
"You get a lifetime"

I found a possible connection


SPIDER-MAN SPOILERS:



The latest issue of Spider-Man ends with Spidey and Dr. Strange outside of time. The next ish is the 500th ish, and something specialy is planned... and i'm pretty sure this arc is wrtten by Neil's old pal J. Micheal Strazynski (the babylon 5 guy). Might this connect to 1602?

Excelsior!

~~~~~~~~~

One day we will die and our ashes will fly from the aeroplane over the sea
Until then we are young let us lay in the sun and count every beautiful thing we can see-- Neutral Milk Hotel

http://lon.blogspot.com Its a slightly less eloquent me