McCain's healthcare plan isn't nearly as ruinous as people make it out to be, but it's become such a back-burner issue in his campaign that the advisors that actually created it have absolutely no voice with which to defend it and no resources with which to refine it.

That said, it is a remarkably stupid plan.

I think that Obama is making waaay better points, but McCain is coming off well from a 'debate' POV - getting in jabs that aren't directly replied to at the end of a topic that therefore look bad on Obama.

Does it really look bad? Really? I mean, to the general public? 'cause the jabs have tended to be off topic, and just seem like so much floundering for that one last, weak punch before the bell sounds. Does that sway anyone? I'm sure I'm so out of touch with the general public on this sort of thing, but I have to believe that the move is so transparent.

I got to listen the Common Wealth Club of California forum today. They had the Healthcare advisers from both campaigns on for a discussion. Professor Brown (Obama) and Professor Kessler (McCain) were both very well thought and well spoken. They also had a very healthy and respectful debate. That said, it was obvious to me that Professor Brown had done a LOT more research and had well thought out answers.

Kessler's ideas and theories are sound on paper, but too academic. His idea rests too much on market forces with a total lack of any oversight. His idea with minimal oversight and regulation is, essentially, single-payer healthcare, which is a sound proposal.

My only problem with Obama's solutions is that they don't do enough to put an end to unfunded state mandates that're passed not to benefit consumers of healthcare, but to give politicians a boost by going after easy game.

quote:

Originally posted by JP:
Does it really look bad? Really? I mean, to the general public? 'cause the jabs have tended to be off topic, and just seem like so much floundering for that one last, weak punch before the bell sounds. Does that sway anyone? I'm sure I'm so out of touch with the general public on this sort of thing, but I have to believe that the move is so transparent.

I don't think so, but I feel that it does from a 'general public' POV. Although second guessing the 'general public' can be a dangerous game.
I can see through these ruses, as well as the question dodging and talking points that dweller mentioned, but I'm afraid that many of the people watching won't or can't.

It's weird but do the american republican campaigns always have to go after the 'stupid' vote?

Though that said how many of the average joe's are actually going to be watching debates?

quote:

Originally posted by Dweller in Darrkness:
Kessler's ideas and theories are sound on paper, but too academic. His idea rests too much on market forces with a total lack of any oversight. His idea with minimal oversight and regulation is, essentially, single-payer healthcare, which is a sound proposal.

My only problem with Obama's solutions is that they don't do enough to put an end to unfunded state mandates that're passed not to benefit consumers of healthcare, but to give politicians a boost by going after easy game.

Which is my concern about the Obama plan, though I think its more viable than Kessler's with integrating it into the current system.

The thing about healthcare is that it is a lot like education. That is to say, the quality is based state to state, depending on how well local governments fund and regulate. I like Obama's plan to encourage more community activism. I think that if more people become involved with their local communities they will be better able to improve local and regional governance in these matters.

I'm rambling a bit off topic here. There's a city town hall meeting next Thursday and i was planning on attending. For the first time in my life. These are the sorts of things that have been on my mind lately.

They watch the soundbites and the talking heads and let other people draw conclusions for them and then regurgitate that around the water cooler. And by "they" I don't mean republicans, I mean average joe plumber. I wonder how many people actually watched the debate, actually invested 90 minutes to watch, even if they weren't watching for anything more than to validate their opinions.

They've got 6 cross-sectional undecideds on now.

3 of 6 indicated they knew people who would not vote for Obama because of race.
6 of 6 indicated they knew people who would not vote for McCain because of Palin.
1 indicated that she is more likely to vote for Obama now.
3 indicated that they are more likely to vote for McCain now.

I thought McCain did poorly.  Shows what I know, I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Tongster:

I thought McCain did poorly.  Shows what I know, I guess.

At least you would know that the child of your running mate has Downs Syndrome, not Autism.

Oddly enough - with the Joe Plummer thing, reading between the lines it seemed that Joe Plummer made more than 250,000 per year. Based on what they were saying about his taxes, cut and raises.
But yet, McCain talked about this joe plummer as if he was the average american. But he is not if he is in the position to buy the business and makes large sums of money.

I am left with such good feelings after this debate. The autism thing and the "NOOOOOOO?" regarding Obama's health care plan.

Gosh, I wish I had a working TV. How'd they come out of it?

quote:

Originally posted by VegaRiad:
Gosh, I wish I had a working TV. How'd they come out of it?

Sort of like this:

It was streaming live on cnn.com! (My tv only picks up 2 fuzzy channels.)

Wait, is that a picture of McCain having a heart attack?

Just because you can't see his giant ice-cream cone is no reason to suspect he's sick.

From another angle, he's clearly trying to lick the giant transparant golf ball.

i can haz lol mccain?