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quote:
Originally posted by chocolate cake:
imagination is something we also develope with time, that and being able to percieve that things aren't nessisarily real.

i don't know what age we start to develope imagination, but i think it's one of the later stages of brain developement....

also isn't there some research into children that are deprived of stimulation lacking imagination?

Graeme's two. He and I regularly pretend to ride dragons to and from the kitchen, and almost a year ago he started to refuse food that fell on the floor because "the lions need to eat it." I'm not sure what you mean by "later," but it's not too late.


__________
AJGraeme
"You see, I have a policy about honesty and ass-kicking: if you ask for it, I have to let you have it."
-Taylor Mali
"I am a sexy, shoeless god of war."
-Belkar
 
Posts: 43308 | Location: Concord, NH, USA | Registered: July 20, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hi everybody!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dweller in Darkness:
quote:
Originally posted by chocolate cake:
imagination is something we also develope with time, that and being able to percieve that things aren't nessisarily real.

i don't know what age we start to develope imagination, but i think it's one of the later stages of brain developement....

also isn't there some research into children that are deprived of stimulation lacking imagination?

Graeme's two. He and I regularly pretend to ride dragons to and from the kitchen, and almost a year ago he started to refuse food that fell on the floor because "the lions need to eat it." I'm not sure what you mean by "later," but it's not too late.

I have to agree with Dweller on his part. The imagination is one of the first things of development during the brain's development. This is what allows the little kids to believe they are princesses and knights fighting the evil dragons. Then, as you grow older, the imagination matures along with the person. You get more adult images and the such.
 
Posts: 847 | Location: A Zyphorn Mother Ship Above Earth | Registered: July 17, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
*105 gold stars*
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I think that the brain development Hal is refering to is not saying that toddlers and those making incoherent noises haven't developed imagination. More that it comes after a babies senses have begun to become aware of their environment. The response to those dangling mobiles and them benign blobs that keep making weird noises become coupled with an awareness that they disappear from view. And along the stream comes imagination. Imagination is not limited to let's pretend (Though if I were Dweller, I would be checking for lions) but is also the self creations of Where Am I, Where Are they and What's for dinner? Concious preceding unconcious. By the time the kid is toddling they should have their imaginations well under way and stimulated. Unless the aim is to produce a petty bureaucrat.





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Posts: 7694 | Registered: April 09, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
mutant hedgehog worm
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*nods*

mhm what cavanagh said, sorry didn't explain very well, late stage still being well before talking, while brain is still forming the intial pathways and connections
 
Posts: 7850 | Location: The wilds of Canada | Registered: July 30, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I was just trying to pin down what you meant by "later." Yeah, kids have to have their full suite of sensory input devices up and running as well as they can before they can really develop an imagination. I've always wondered, though, if blind children imagine sounds we can't.


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AJGraeme
"You see, I have a policy about honesty and ass-kicking: if you ask for it, I have to let you have it."
-Taylor Mali
"I am a sexy, shoeless god of war."
-Belkar
 
Posts: 43308 | Location: Concord, NH, USA | Registered: July 20, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Girded for battle
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(I *lessthanthree* science, specially when other people are doing the thinking.. I know nothing, but it's all fascinating. Smile )

I was talking to a psychologist once, by no means an expert in brain chemistry but a very intelligent woman, who told me that the chemical reaction in your brain when you're imagining something is similar, but not exactly the same, as that when you see it for real. For example when you think of your mother's face, and when you see a picture of her- the same kind of brain activity is happening. So imagination is kinda like seeing, but different... vision with a twist.




the consonants and vowels.. the consequence of sounds
 
Posts: 1132 | Location: Glesga | Registered: July 13, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
is in perfect karmic alignment
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That might explain why you can never get a proper picture in your mind of the people you love the most. Too complicated so it sort of gets amorphous... Cool.
(f.e. I can imagine the face of a friend from years ago, but i can never see my SO properly in my mind's eye)


~You are a *Taverner*.
Sometimes patrons want to go where everybody knows their names, though it helps 
when half of them are named John. When people want to celebrate, or commiserate, 
they gather to your establishment. You provide the atmosphere, the warmth, rum, 
and even an ear to bend. Did I mention the rum? Years before the language will be 
mangled with terms like facilitator and networking and interpersonal communication,
you've overseen it all, and broken up a few bar fights, to boot.~
-Royko
 
Posts: 6833 | Location: Just north of Earth | Registered: July 02, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I'd think that woman is quite right, aisha. I'm not sure the path that images take, but eye to brain has to be at least a bit different from brain to brain.


__________
AJGraeme
"You see, I have a policy about honesty and ass-kicking: if you ask for it, I have to let you have it."
-Taylor Mali
"I am a sexy, shoeless god of war."
-Belkar
 
Posts: 43308 | Location: Concord, NH, USA | Registered: July 20, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
should only be taken in the dosage prescribed by your physician
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Pure speculation on my part, but the kink there is hallucinations, I think. They've been explained to me as the brain making stuff up because it can't, but must try, to recognize insufficient or garbled stimuli. I'm not sure if our recognition of "real" is all that great and imagination seems to play a role even when we're only trying to verify that, when we're looking at a duck, we're actually seeing a duck.


------
"Cynicism masquerades as wisdom, but it is the farthest thing from it. Because cynics don't learn anything. Because cynicism is a self-imposed blindness, a rejection of the world because we are afraid it will hurt us or disappoint us. Cynics always say no. But saying 'yes' begins things. Saying 'yes' is how things grow. Saying 'yes' leads to knowledge."
~Stephen Colbert
 
Posts: 7015 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: July 02, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Well, I do know that it's possible to tell from someone's brain activity whether or not they're hallucinating, or at least it's possible to say that they likely are or are not based on such tests. I would that must mean that different parts of they brain are active when an individual's hallucinating than when they aren't.


__________
AJGraeme
"You see, I have a policy about honesty and ass-kicking: if you ask for it, I have to let you have it."
-Taylor Mali
"I am a sexy, shoeless god of war."
-Belkar
 
Posts: 43308 | Location: Concord, NH, USA | Registered: July 20, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Yeah, I've seen reports of studies that have observed that different parts of the brain light up and go ping when a hallucination is underway. But as yet there appears to be very little that's definate as to what is happening. Chemical measurements and pathway activity can be measured, but exactly what they're doing is harder to pin down. Especially to my lay understandings.

Following on from Dweller:

quote:
kids have to have their full suite of sensory input devices up and running as well as they can before they can really develop an imagination


Aisha in Goldfrappe colours

quote:
the chemical reaction in your brain when you're imagining something is similar, but not exactly the same, as that when you see it for real


and Funky Punkyfins;

quote:
That might explain why you can never get a proper picture in your mind of the people you love the most. Too complicated



Is it possible that instead of tying hallucinations to the conscious senses, they're perhaps closer to memory? An eye sees a lion. The brain flips it the right way up, shape, colour, aroma and sound are matched to the store and the brain thinks (In the language of your choice) Lion! When you hallucinate you are trying to process the same data retrieval, but the library has gotten it's index cards all over the place? That's for visuals mainly, but it possibly can encompass the other aspects of hallucinations.





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Posts: 7694 | Registered: April 09, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
The Biscuitkeeper
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I got an early Christmas gift!

We had our Christmas party for the paleontology museum group. I found a rare fossil cystoid last fall in Alpena, Michigan on a field trip with the group. I gave it to one of the guys back in June to professionally clean it for me. I got it back today.

Cystoids are rare for Alpena. The only cystoids that have been found there are lipsanocytites. The cystoid I found is from a different genus, Strobilocystites. They've been found in Iowa, but never Michigan. The professor is going to ask around to see if anyone is studying cystoids and would like to see it. I don't want it sitting in my basement if it has some scientific value.

I'm pretty frickin' geeked.



I'm Matt Cable and I approve this message.
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Posts: 9307 | Location: Michigan | Registered: April 27, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
mutant hedgehog worm
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*grins*

yup you far out geeked me on this one Wink

it ooks rather like a crinoid.....is a cystoid related to them?

and appart from it being marine and some sort of echinoderm perhaps? i don't have a freaking clue what that is......

oh and finding rare stuff is just so very much fun Big Grin
 
Posts: 7850 | Location: The wilds of Canada | Registered: July 30, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
The Biscuitkeeper
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You're dead on Hal. It's a marine echinoderm, related to crinoids and blastoids. They basically look like balls on a stem. Crinoids usually have 5 arms with feathers and blastoids have filters on the sides and no arms. I really don't know that much about cystoids either.


I'm Matt Cable and I approve this message.
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Posts: 9307 | Location: Michigan | Registered: April 27, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
mutant hedgehog worm
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except that it sounds rather like some sort of std....

*geek snicker*
 
Posts: 7850 | Location: The wilds of Canada | Registered: July 30, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
here
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Cable:

I'm pretty frickin' geeked.



"Found" it? In an abandoned spacecraft, perhaps?How long ago did this thing fall off of your face? Have you had any strange abdominal pains that didn't get better with Maalox? Now might be a good time to update your will.



quote:

posted by Cavenagh
Is it possible that instead of tying hallucinations to the conscious senses, they're perhaps closer to memory? An eye sees a lion. The brain flips it the right way up, shape, colour, aroma and sound are matched to the store and the brain thinks (In the language of your choice) Lion! When you hallucinate you are trying to process the same data retrieval, but the library has gotten it's index cards all over the place? That's for visuals mainly, but it possibly can encompass the other aspects of hallucinations.

Actually, what you are describing is psychosis, not hallucinations. Hallucinations are actually extra activity in the sensory centers of the brain. It looks different on scans because it isn't originating from where it is supposed to.
Psychosis is when your brain says "lion" and all of the relevant memories trigger. In a normal brain that's as far as it goes, but in a psychotic brain it can't tell the difference between stimuli originating internally and externally.


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Posts: 1532 | Location: Penn State University | Registered: May 28, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I thought this was interesting about the creative process.

quote:
Creativity tied to sexual 'success'

Artists may indeed have a more active love life than most of us -- and part of the reason may be their tendency toward a certain schizophrenia-linked personality trait, a study suggests.

In a survey of 425 British adults, researchers found that serious poets and visual artists generally had more sexual partners than those who were either not artistic or only dabbled in the arts.

Further analysis showed that one personality dimension -- a tendency toward "unusual" thoughts and perceptions -- was related to both creativity and sexual success.

That tendency is also seen in people with schizophrenia. And the findings, according to the study authors, may help explain why schizophrenia -- a mental disorder that often runs in families -- has not been extinguished from the gene pool.

Certain schizophrenia-related personality traits, they speculate, may confer benefits when they are not part of a mental illness. When they instead spur creativity, for example, they may offer a mating advantage, according to the researchers, led by Daniel Nettle, a psychologist at the University of Newcastle.

He and colleague Helen Keenoo report their findings in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society.

Artists, from 18th Century poets to 21st Century musicians, have a well-earned reputation for leading busy romantic lives. But until now, there had never been a systematic comparison to document the phenomenon, Nettle told Reuters Health.

There have, though, been studies showing that creative types have higher-than-average rates of schizophrenia in their families, and that they themselves have a heightened tendency toward schizophrenia-like traits.

Schizophrenia itself has a strong genetic component, and since people with the disorder suffer poor overall health and have a low likelihood of having children, evolution should have lead to the disappearance of traits that predispose to schizophrenia.

But it has not. And some researchers have speculated that the link between schizophrenic traits and creativity -- a positive effect -- could be one reason.

In the new study, participants disclosed the number of sexual partners they'd had as adults and answered questions that gauge four schizophrenia-related personality dimensions.

One is the tendency toward "unusual experiences," defined as atypical thoughts or perceptions, or "magical thinking." This trait, the study found, was more common in serious artists, and people who scored high on the unusual-experiences front also tended to have more sexual partners.

The findings, according to Nettle, suggest that unusual thinking and perceptions, when operating in a healthy person, spur creativity and, in turn, may make a person more attractive.

"Successful creative types are signaling that they have unusual mental qualities that can command the attention of others, and as such, they are likely to bear or sire us children who can do the same," he explained.

Coupled with other traits, however - such as disorganized thoughts and concentration problems, and social withdrawal -- this feature may make a person vulnerable to schizophrenia. In this study, these other traits were either unrelated to creativity and sexual activity or tended to hinder both.


---------
She was not quite what you would call refined.
She was not quite what you would call unrefined.
She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot.
~ Mark Twain

Eternity lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you eaten enough ice cream?
 
Posts: 1119 | Location: island of misfit toys | Registered: January 31, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
should only be taken in the dosage prescribed by your physician
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Or it just means artistic people are more slutty than the rest of the population and tend to run in the same circles.

I'm not saying that, just that it's another interpretation of the results. You'd have to look at the level of "artisticness" of their partners to control for that.


------
"Cynicism masquerades as wisdom, but it is the farthest thing from it. Because cynics don't learn anything. Because cynicism is a self-imposed blindness, a rejection of the world because we are afraid it will hurt us or disappoint us. Cynics always say no. But saying 'yes' begins things. Saying 'yes' is how things grow. Saying 'yes' leads to knowledge."
~Stephen Colbert
 
Posts: 7015 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: July 02, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
mutant hedgehog worm
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yeah studies using such a small survey pool i tend to find a bit suspicious too

there are so many ways that you can translate information regading linked mental characteristic traits.

it always amused me that exchange students are far more likely to suffer from depression....

but is that to say that going on an exchange makes you more susseptable or that people that choose to go on an exchange tend to be those that are more susseptable anyway, my personal feeling is the latter.
 
Posts: 7850 | Location: The wilds of Canada | Registered: July 30, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Did something right
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Liberal arts majors definitely put out more. Hedonists, the lot of you.


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"WEIRD! WEIRDY-WEIRDO-WEIRD! WEIRDOPOTTAMUS WEIRDOSAUR! HIM! YOU! WEIRD!"-Mr. Furious
 
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