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Have you ever been cheated on?
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That's a very noble thing to do Ceridwen. I am glad to see people doing things that are humanly good. It really makes me feel better about the path of humanity when I see people doing the right thing. Keep it up, who knows where it will take you. Smile

On the subject of your mom cheating on your dad, I'm truly sorry to hear that happen to anyone because I know what it does to people. Trust is lost, love is lost, all feelings are lost in that storm of emotions. I'm so sorry. Frown
 
Posts: 111 | Location: Pudding Palace | Registered: January 17, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm allowed to have sex with another person as long as they look like this:


Why does she insist on making eye contact?
 
Posts: 32901 | Location: smooshy mashed pertato mountian | Registered: June 25, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
waggish jackanape
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I said no, although I was once in a rather complicated relationship where the other person exploited certain ambiguities in the relationship to sleep with someone else and not tell me about it. Eventually she did tell me about it, and it hurt quite a bit. But technically, it wasn't cheating, it was more like a lie of omission.

I've also been the "Other Man" before, which I do not recommend, for many, many reasons.


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Posts: 6919 | Location: Chicago | Registered: October 24, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Are you my mummy?
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If you've ever been a network admin with email privileges, worked in law enforcement or lived on a military base as a medic you get a bit jaded. I think the only two answers are yes and maybe. People lie. The expectations on women are a bit ridiculous and I think they are forced to be a bit tight lipped with the truth about their sex lives. Even the most honest woman will lie about the number of sexual partners she has had. It's always three BTW. Which sort of made sense when I was 18. But when a 40 year old woman says that I try hard not to laugh.

As a dad who is actually involved in the raising of my kid I know many of the local moms. Married and on the hunt is common. Some who are the most public about not cheating(churchy as well) are only two drinks away from trying to kiss you and begging you to do it in the back seat of their minivan. I blame it on marrying for the wrong reasons, staying together for the kids and the business side of the relationship. Things like boredom, a spouse's inabiltiy to satisfy, being a workaholic, finding out about the others affair and wanting a bit of secret revenge are all common excuses. Many tell you long stories about how bad their spouse is to try and seal the deal. But I don't trust these either. Lately I try and meet the spouse, often they seem nice. Nice to the point of being boring. Often people seeking affairs want to pretend to be something they are not. After being with someone a few years they see through your illusions. Some want to escape that and have some hot sex. Which would be fine if everyone were honest. That will probably never happen though.


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Posts: 852 | Location: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: July 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Even the most honest woman will lie about the number of sexual partners she has had.

No, actually, she won't. I don't mind statements like, "In my experience a lot of people lie about the number of partners they've had" and I get being jaded but if you honestly believe the quote above, you can kiss my "honest woman" ass. Matrix knows exactly who and therefore how many people I've had a sexual relationship with, and I give as much detail as he cares to know. TGIB is welcome to the same information. That's one of the nice things about being in an open relationship- you don't feel like you have to lie about that sort of thing. Don't say, "(Everyone being honest) will probably never happen though," when it DOES happen.

Note to everyone else: I'm in no way saying being poly/open solves the problem of cheating. It doesn't. People can be poly or open and still cheat. I just needed to contradict Nemo's hyper-cynical-to-the-point-of-unreasonableness point of view with some personal experience of my own.


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Posts: 5271 | Location: Sacramento, CA, US | Registered: August 17, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Weirdy American Tart Thing
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I agree with Jena. I didn't lie to my husband (although at the time we were just dating). I don't see the point in lying.


Minister of Kraftwerk in the Realm of U & P, Order of the Pineapple with frond for advancement in Nap studies.


The brain: not always amenable to logic. ~Hive

 
Posts: 25427 | Location: under tangled yarn | Registered: August 09, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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And agree. I never lie if asked (and I don't even mind the question in the first place). All my female friends are pretty open about their relationships as well.

You don't have to read anyone's emails or work in law-enforcement to think everyone cheats or is cheated on. I think that too.

I am basing my views purely on anecdotal evidence, of course. But I'd say that, out of all the people who've been close to me in high-school, uni, all the different jobs, different cities and three countries... I'd say 80% of the people I've been close to have either cheated or have been cheated on (sometimes both). Some were forgiven or forgave, some didn't, some tried to work it out and some even succeeded. Sometimes it was someone being an idiot, sometimes it was love, sometimes resentment...

But I'm not jaded or cynical. Cheating can hurt someone really deeply, of course, but it's not necessarily the worst thing ever. It might be, it might just be a mistake that can be repaired. It can be something no one will ever know about and actually somehow save your relationship (I know at least one such case). I believe that it's not that difficult to suddenly find yourself suddenly cheating or being cheated on, so the way I see it, it's easier to understand.

(Which doesn't mean I think cheating is OK. It's not.)


 
Posts: 11803 | Location: home? | Registered: June 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Perhaps you can be honest to your lover. Few here are. The ones that do pay a heavy price. Do you really live in a city where you can be honest about having a great many lovers to your friends and acquaintances? I would like to move to France myself. In my rather boring community saying you were polyamourous would be so taboo your kids would never have another play date. Seriously, parents would drag their kids away from your kid at the park. It is that bad. Even coming out gay, which is more socially acceptable, would get you quietly shunned. Of course the people judging you are often having affairs and have just as many lovers. But admitting it or getting caught is not acceptable. Telling the truth about that could lose you your job as well. Where I live most people have some very repressive rules that apply to everyone but themselves. In this environment a woman cannot be honest. It would give away too much power.
When I say the answer is always three I am half joking. But I am also half deadly serious. It’s a necessary lie because some people here think they can be the Taliban and destroy peoples lives. There is little to gain and much to lose from telling the truth.

Oh and I forgot to add what I think is the real reason people here have so many affairs IMO. Loneliness.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Nemo888,
 
Posts: 852 | Location: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: July 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
mutant hedgehog worm
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Jesus dude I live in the middle of nowhere small mining town Ontario and people aren't that repressed!

If you are seriously in Ottawa you need to start hanging out with different groups of people.

PS. none of the posters above live in france....
 
Posts: 9896 | Location: The heart of gold | Registered: July 30, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm not out about being poly with everyone, and certainly not at work, so I understand part of what you're saying. But at the same time, besides being honest with my partner(s) and my doctor about my sexual history, who the hell's business is it?? Why are they asking?!? Your statement about "women lie" seemed to mean they lie to the people they are in relationships with. The mom of my 5-year-old's BFF does NOT need to know how many people I've slept with!!


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Posts: 5271 | Location: Sacramento, CA, US | Registered: August 17, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Halucinagenia,
It got much worse when we left the sinking public school to go to the Catholic one. Not a single kid in our neighborhood goes to the public school now. It is like a small town. Poly is super taboo for some reason. Do you think it could be feelings of inadequacy because everyone is getting older and fatter? I have no idea really.
Also I just like France. I spoke French for years and am fonder of France than the UK. I think about retiring there. Preferably in some (idealized) southern former roman town.

Jena,
People lie. An important piece of early dating advice to my daughter will be men lie. I think I can say the worst treachery 99% of us ever experienced was in a romantic relationship. Men are luckier as the social censure for having many lovers is much less severe.

Men can be very insecure as well. I think most women will agree with that. Some think it is better to lie than hurt their lovers fragile ego. There are many valid reasons to obfuscate the issue.

I was fooled more times than I care to admit until a cougar filled me in about how three was the magic number. With three you can still have learned a few tricks, but it is not so many that a man’s rather fragile ego will be intimidated. She told it as a very humorous story, which was the only information I ever got about her past. Going back ten years or so all my serious lovers lied, at least at the beginning of the relationship. Now some lie to their current lovers and joke about it with me. The number is still three.

My policy is to say nothing. I refuse to count and have no idea what the number would be. What I did before I met you is private. Better than having it come out in some argument 6 months later.


______________________________________________________________________________
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Posts: 852 | Location: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: July 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Nemo888:
Men can be very insecure as well. I think most women will agree with that. Some think it is better to lie than hurt their lovers fragile ego. There are many valid reasons to obfuscate the issue.
I don't believe men are any more insecure overall than women are. Some of both sexes may feel it's better to lie. I don't agree. From my point of view the basis for any healthy relationship is trust and honesty. Perhaps it comes down to partner selection. I'm not going to coddle someone to protect a fragile ego (I'm working on learning tact, however. It's a process). If I can't tell them the truth, I won't be in a relationship with them. If you kept getting fooled, perhaps what you were using as criteria for partner-selection needed to be taken into consideration.


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Damn peer pressure
 
Posts: 5271 | Location: Sacramento, CA, US | Registered: August 17, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
mutant hedgehog worm
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quote:
Originally posted by Nemo888:
Halucinagenia,
It got much worse when we left the sinking public school to go to the Catholic one. Not a single kid in our neighborhood goes to the public school now. It is like a small town. Poly is super taboo for some reason. Do you think it could be feelings of inadequacy because everyone is getting older and fatter? I have no idea really.


Ah yes well Catholics tend to be judgemental lying arseholes so really not surprised (being totally sterotyping here). It does amuse me that those that consider themselves to be morally superior due to their religion, tend to be the worst at breaking their own rules. Anyway that's my personal rant and yeah religion is homophobic to boot. Good luck with living in that community , I wont touch the catholic community here with a ten foot pole, but then I'm atheist.
 
Posts: 9896 | Location: The heart of gold | Registered: July 30, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Goodness, Nemo, where do you live, in the 1950s? That whole scene sounds weird and depressing... And really nothing like anything I've ever encountered anywhere.

Among my friends, family and acquaintances cheating is uncommon but not unheard of, although in most cases it's been about overlap between consecutive relationships rather than mere philandering. Anyway, I don't know if I've ever been cheated on. Lied to in other ways that were hurtful, definitely.

I once knew a woman who was in an open marriage, and she told me something I remember finding utterly fascinating at the time. She'd never felt the least bit jealous about her husband's sexual affairs, until she heard he'd cooked for one of his lovers. That's when she went ballistic...

Meaning, I guess, that it's just not about the act itself rather than the (mutually agreed upon) boundaries.


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Posts: 2414 | Location: fluttering about | Registered: September 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Tismalleen:
She'd never felt the least bit jealous about her husband's sexual affairs, until she heard he'd cooked for one of his lovers. That's when she went ballistic...

This made me laugh, as I said something similar upthread. Shagging? Eh, whatever. *waves hand, idly* You took her to lunch? YOU BASTARD!


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Posts: 15845 | Registered: April 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
is in perfect karmic alignment
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quote:
Originally posted by Jena:
quote:
Even the most honest woman will lie about the number of sexual partners she has had.

No, actually, she won't. I don't mind statements like, "In my experience a lot of people lie about the number of partners they've had" and I get being jaded but if you honestly believe the quote above, you can kiss my "honest woman" ass. Matrix knows exactly who and therefore how many people I've had a sexual relationship with, and I give as much detail as he cares to know. TGIB is welcome to the same information. That's one of the nice things about being in an open relationship- you don't feel like you have to lie about that sort of thing. Don't say, "(Everyone being honest) will probably never happen though," when it DOES happen.

Note to everyone else: I'm in no way saying being poly/open solves the problem of cheating. It doesn't. People can be poly or open and still cheat. I just needed to contradict Nemo's hyper-cynical-to-the-point-of-unreasonableness point of view with some personal experience of my own.


I can't remember having lied about the amount of sexual partners i've had, but then it's never been exactly necissary: for my age i haven't had that many. (Though more than three, certainly).
But Nemo does have a point. In my experience women are judged differently than men on the subject. And sometimes harshly.

Also, in my experience, when it comes to sex men can sometimes be insecure: and moreso than women. But that relates to their sexual prowess more than the net amount of lovers. Again, just from my experience.

And whether the relationship is more open or more monogamous doesn't seem to change the level of honesty. Like i've said before: especially[1] in more traditional relationship-types that *seem* to follow a certain format (but never do) clarity and honesty is paramount.

What i get from Nemo's post is that in his experience it is exactly that clarity and honesty that seems to be lacking because of the social mores i've discussed before. Which, in his case, seem to be even more dire than in my experience. And like i posted earlier in this thread: in a way i can agree with that.

[1]I say especially because whereas in a more open structure it seems more necissary to have 'rules', the tacit restrictions of a more 'closed' structures bring the danger that both parties think they know what the deal is. When in fact, neither of them has the foggiest.


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Blog: Room with a view.

~You are a *Taverner*.
Sometimes patrons want to go where everybody knows their names, though it helps when half of them are named John. When people want to celebrate, or commiserate, they gather to your establishment. You provide the atmosphere, the warmth, rum, and even an ear to bend. Did I mention the rum? Years before the language will be mangled with terms like facilitator and networking and interpersonal communication, you've overseen it all, and broken up a few bar fights, to boot.~
-Royko

 
Posts: 8667 | Location: Just north of Earth | Registered: July 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Are you my mummy?
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Originally posted by Jena:
From my point of view the basis for any healthy relationship is trust and honesty. Perhaps it comes down to partner selection. I'm not going to coddle someone to protect a fragile ego (I'm working on learning tact, however. It's a process). If I can't tell them the truth, I won't be in a relationship with them. If you kept getting fooled, perhaps what you were using as criteria for partner-selection needed to be taken into consideration.

This is tongue and cheek so don’t take this too seriously. There are some perks to choosing partners who are sexually repressed. All that tension is usually just below the surface and has been waiting to explode for years. They also tend to have had horrible lovers. Many have never even had their partner give them an orgasm. Being the most amazing lover someone has ever had is something nice to bring to a relationship. Especially if all you had to do is learn to go downtown. It can get you out of doing a lot of housework with no resentment. Oh, and sandwiches!
The drawback is they tend to get infatuated. When a “bad” girl falls in love you know she means it. You can be positive they love you for you. I think this is much more romantic. Hard to find though. Most don’t want to settle down. They also have a totally different set of issues that are even harder to navigate than a more prosaic lover.
At my age most people are trapped. Jobs, mortgages, kids, pressure from extended families and community all force people to be a certain way. Most don’t even look at the nature of their prison, but they still long to escape on some level. They want both the security and the excitement. Maybe I am still part of the previous generation. I think you will see what I mean when you are in your late 30’s and early 40’s.
May fortune favour the foolish!


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Posts: 852 | Location: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: July 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
is in perfect karmic alignment
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quote:
Originally posted by Nemo888:
quote:
Originally posted by Jena:
From my point of view the basis for any healthy relationship is trust and honesty. Perhaps it comes down to partner selection. I'm not going to coddle someone to protect a fragile ego (I'm working on learning tact, however. It's a process). If I can't tell them the truth, I won't be in a relationship with them. If you kept getting fooled, perhaps what you were using as criteria for partner-selection needed to be taken into consideration.

This is tongue and cheek so don’t take this too seriously. There are some perks to choosing partners who are sexually repressed. All that tension is usually just below the surface and has been waiting to explode for years. They also tend to have had horrible lovers. Many have never even had their partner give them an orgasm. Being the most amazing lover someone has ever had is something nice to bring to a relationship. Especially if all you had to do is learn to go downtown. It can get you out of doing a lot of housework with no resentment. Oh, and sandwiches!
The drawback is they tend to get infatuated. When a “bad” girl falls in love you know she means it. You can be positive they love you for you. I think this is much more romantic. Hard to find though. Most don’t want to settle down. They also have a totally different set of issues that are even harder to navigate than a more prosaic lover.
At my age most people are trapped. Jobs, mortgages, kids, pressure from extended families and community all force people to be a certain way. Most don’t even look at the nature of their prison, but they still long to escape on some level. They want both the security and the excitement. Maybe I am still part of the previous generation. I think you will see what I mean when you are in your late 30’s and early 40’s.
May fortune favour the foolish!

What is this i don't even....
Wha...
*laughing*
Alright, alright. To a certain extent i agree with you there. You become
"Legal-aid/34/no kids"
"no kids?"
"no"
".... why not??"

You get to the point where anything you do becomes an act of defiance in people's eyes.
Truth is: you're mid-thirties and you're taking stock of where you are in your life: and sometimes it's a truly truly frightening thought.
You mention 'settling down'. In my experience (some) Bad boyz 'n girlz do exactly that, in a heartbeat, when they reach that age. It's as if there's a collective unconscious 'playtime's over' sign blinking. As for the set of issues, uhm, yes? Almost half a lifetime's worth.

It's worth mentioning though that people seem to treat women (especially women) as if they had a sell-by date. "If you can still meet a nice man at *this* time in your life: count yourself lucky and run with it!" Now while i agree that the dating pool is harsh at 'this age' i wonder if that doesn't contribute to women sticking with a relationship they should probably leave.

And the ...
*laughing*
The irritating drawback of women (i presume women?) getting infatuated with the first bloke who performs in the sack is, to put it mildly, uhm... You know what? I have no idea *how* to put it. I can only offer my very sincere condolences that you poor blokes have all these desperate women falling for you! How awful. For you. Blokes. Just. Awful.


-------------------
Blog: Room with a view.

~You are a *Taverner*.
Sometimes patrons want to go where everybody knows their names, though it helps when half of them are named John. When people want to celebrate, or commiserate, they gather to your establishment. You provide the atmosphere, the warmth, rum, and even an ear to bend. Did I mention the rum? Years before the language will be mangled with terms like facilitator and networking and interpersonal communication, you've overseen it all, and broken up a few bar fights, to boot.~
-Royko

 
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Did something right
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Y'know something that's always kind of bugged me? I've had a few exes convert to Catholicism after we've broken up. I turn women Catholic.

What the hell does that mean?


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I turn women celibate. What the hell does THAT mean?
 
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