Right. I've recently come into contact with someone who very religious (and also a creationist).

Having discovered my atheism, she's very keen to talk about religion in general and creationism in particular. I've spent a fair ammount of time discussing religion, so I can politely dead-bat or deflect much of the conversation, but she is particularly keen on discussing creationism and pushing it as a view. I don't want to attack back, but it's getting very difficult to say nothing, or change the subject every time.

So, given various posters encounters with creationists, what are your tips on how to talk in a way that will help to crack this absurd facade while remaining friendly?

What are little arguments that can help cast doubt, etc? Where have you found success?

god, I'd just say I didn't want to talk about it. People aren't supposed to talk about religion! It's rude.

If she doesn't accept that you don't want to discuss it, then she probably also won't react well to your arguments.

I agree with HNG - if she's really trying to push it as a point of view, I can't see any conversation ending well.

Maybe just politely say you would feel more comfortable not discussing it, as your views are so different?

That gives you an out at least so that then, when she still tries, all gloves are off

I have the sneaking suspicion, however, that Murphy is already girding his mental loins and is not completely opposed to the idea of arguing about creationism.

It's not necessarily that i don't want to talk about it, it's that at the moment I don't have the correct conversational ammunition.

I'd be absolutely fine playing a friendly game of paintball or lazertag, but at the moment I'd feel like I was bringing a machine gun, you get me?

haha, this has totally synched with a discussion we're having in another forum, sparked off by this post

quote:

sadly, I've got those people in my FAMILY. This morning, I awoke to a status update from a much younger cousin bemoaning the fact that her geology class professor was insisting that things were millions of years old. "It makes me so mad that people are so IGNORANT! Praise God!"

quote:

Originally posted by His Nodle Girl:
I have the sneaking suspicion, however, that Murphy is already girding his mental loins and is not completely opposed to the idea of arguing about creationism.

well, given the thread is asking how to talk to a creationist I'd say you're spot on.

I just want it to remain light, while also allowing me to use some arguments that might help promote some doubt in their creationism.

quote:

I just want it to remain light, while also allowing me to use some arguments that might help promote some doubt in their creationism.

You'll lose.
I've stated this before: when you're dealing with radically different worldviews, wit little overlap, you can discuss it only on eachothers terms.
the axiom (absolute truth) of her worldview, she will reason with that as a *starting point*. It's not up for discussion.
You'll never convince her that starting point is wrong, since it's the *basis* of her worldview.

what she said ^

I can't reply because all my ammunition are tracers with explosive tips.

I think I'd get so hung-up on the 'wuh?' that I wouldn't be able to form a coherent argument, to be honest. I really don't get creationism.

*nods*

i have a friend, whom i get on well with, that is a spiritalist!

she knows my views..i know her's - we won't get *anywhere* discussing them appart from letting each other know.

I am studying the impact of beliefs right now.

There's one chap in the 70s (forget his name despite the lecture being only Tuesday) who defined beliefs into three realms:

Deep Core beliefs - likely to be unshakeable throughout your whole life despite evidence to the contrary.

Primary beliefs - difficult to shake, could be altered with a fundamental change in perception

Secondary principles - these are more easily discardable/adoptable and will move and flex according to what best supports their Deeps and Primaries.

How about asking her which creation story in genesis she believes

quote:

... how to talk to a creationist

Loudly and slowly.

hang on - fionchadd - your cousin is studyin geology and she's a creationist? that's just... self contradictory.

I saw on Phil Plait's twitter the other day that the Skeptics Society is offering its guide on exactly that as a free download for a short time. I can't find it though as I haven't enough googling time.

Limer - no - someone else posted that not me, I was just reposting here.

But yeah, it was a bit of an 'um...?' moment!

I think like any other topic, it depends on how much you have invested in the relationship with the person.