I lent Coraline to a good friend of mine. Her reaction was..." My god, that man is really insane. What sort of person writes books like that for children?" Then she says, " if you, ok not you because your weird like that, were going to write for kids, would you write like that? "

Hell yeah.But my opinion doesn't count...cause I'm weird like that.... but if you were writing a kids book, would yours be that, um, different?

"Where the wild things are"
Boy playing with beasties - not a typical picture book. That's what makes it special. there's a quote I enjoy from Sendak (which I must severely paraphrase) saying something like we don't expect every adult book to be suitable for every adult, why should every kids book be suitable for every kid?

Anyway, ever check out the kids section where Coraline is stashed? Clive Barker (Thief of Always), Orson Scott Card (Ender's Game), all of Diana Wynne Jones books, (not to mention stuff like Narnia, Treasure Island, etc) are in the same section as Coraline. What's the big deal?

I think there is an idea running around that anything that is slightly dark isn't suitable for children.

It is a new and stupid idea in my opinion.

Stories for children have always included the darker side of human nature. The good ones, at any rate.

I think any author that is any good at what they do and knows anything about the inner life of children understands that because children still *believe* in magical worlds and monsters in the closet they are the perfect audience for works like Coraline. It doesn't harm them; it gives them an outlet for what is already in their heads.

Of course, I may not be the best person to be posting a response to this since the children's books that were about daffodils, lollipops and rainbows bored me witless but at the age of 9 or so I really got into <i>The Lord of the Flies</i> and the like.

But I will say that fairytales are supposed to be like this. If they aren't they aren't really fairy tales. They are just fluffy fantasies.

Most children as they grow learn that people will lie and the world isn't all fine. A diet of books that refuses to acknowledge the existence of darkness denies reality.

As Averde says, it's a stupid idea, although regrettably not new. We're still recovering from the literary and cultural idiocy of the Victorians prettying up all the fairy tales to make them suitable for children's tender natures...

Well, yes, the Victorian era was probably the first time that they whitewashed fairy tales and took all the sex, blood, gore and betrayal out of them...but it was a weird time then. It is also the era that gave us Grahame's The Reluctant Dragon, Wilde's The Selfish Giant, Goblin Market and even the Pied Piper of Hamelin.

I dare anyone to entertain the notion that Wilde would be Disney approved...

I think we've gone them one further. Possibly two. PCness is going to be the death of culture and literature. I just know it. You should see some of the crap they want my children to read in school. It is all moral object lessons and no fun.

I wrote a childrens book when I was 15 years old. It was about a kid being butchered by a serial killer. I thought that Coraline was pretty tame stuff.

- Michael

oh, I agree. I've been reading weird crap since I was really young. My grandma gave me a copy of Grimms fairy tales from the early 1900's, and~ some of those stories are really twisted.

quote:

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Originally posted by the_lady_Door:
I lent Coraline to a good friend of mine. Her reaction was..." My god, that man is really insane. What sort of person writes books like that for children?" Then she says, " if you, ok not you because your weird like that, were going to write for kids, would you write like that? "

Hell yeah.But my opinion doesn't count...cause I'm weird like that.... but if you were writing a kids book, would yours be that, um, different?

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Is your friend aware of what the original faery tales were like before Disney got a hold of them? Trust me, they're pretty dark. I think some people underestimate children. They're a lot smarter than most adults think, and capable of seeing things in many ways.

Whoops...didn't read below posts...pretty much said the same thing everybody else did...oh, well...

B.

Childrens stories (the good old sick&twisted ones) used to serve as primers for children serving to impress upon them the dangers this sick&twisted world has in store. "Coraline" may not be quite as twisted or goary as traditional childrens stories but the fact that it's heroine Coraline is such a capable young lady gives it some of that educational quality (which ,in my opinion, any good book should have, not only childrens books). Coralines confidence inventiveness and imagination are useful, even admirable, characteristics. Encouraging these (as opposed to caution, obedience & piety) is in my opinion a worthy endeavor in today's world.

When I was 8 or 9 I read the original (or close to it) version of the Little Mermaid, where the mermaid has to kill the guy because he married someone else, or else she would turn to foam on the waves (which is what happens when mermaids die, in this story). Her 6 sisters had sold all thier golden hair to the sea witch to get the knife that would turn her back into a mermaid once she killed him. Oh, and she suffered great pain when she walked or danced, although she was so graceful everyone wanted her to dance-so she did. In the end she cast herself into the sea, but instead of dying the angels took pity on her and let her stay in heaven. O.O

I would write children's stories of a different feather, too. Hmm, maybe I will... and then illustrate it myself.

I generally get amazed about parents reactions in these situations. If they put it in perspective instead of focusing on just the one thing they're upset about...

In Sweden (where I'm from) for instance, some movies are for kids 11 years old and up. BUT if the go with a parent, 7 year-olds can get in.

And parents take them. Which means the 7 year-olds get to se way to see things maby a bit to scary and upsetting.

Not to forget toys. Parents buys toys for their kids from series that are violent and stuff.

But then someone write a book that is "to dark" and so on and so forth, and instantly there's a big debate about this...

Same thing happend with HP. Huge diskussions about weather it was suitible for kids, to read about death and such.

*sigh*

I wonder what I will become like, as a parent...

/*Amabile*

If you read the title page there is a quote from some guy (Sorry I left my book at uni so I cant say who exactly). He says something along the lines of the fact that fairy stories aren't there to say that dragons dont exist, they are there to say that dragons do exist and they can be beaten. I went to see Gaiman read a bit of Coraline in Edinburgh, when he was asked about whether he thought the book was too scary he talked about the quote and said that he wrote the book to show that although there were evil things in the world they CAN be beaten. I think the reason that it is not too scary is that Coraline always seems to know what she is doing and that she could win. I know I'm probably repeating stuff - but anyway, here's my tup'ny-worth

I think people who get worked up about childrens books being dark or scary don't have much experience of children.

I mean, children are horrible blodthirsty little demons when they feel like it, witness the kid behind me in the cinema who went'COOL!' when the orcs head got chopped off, or the fact that my just-gone-four year old cousin took Coraline in her stride while I, at 19 and three-quaters, was checking under the bed. If it makes sense, however twisted, they'll take to it. They only have trouble with things they get told aren't true or that they can't find the logic in. Surprisinly sensible, little people are.

When adults look at books for children and make sweeping statements about the "appropriateness" of the story with respect to the intended audience, they haven't really considered the auidence either. Of course Coraline is disturbing to adults but that's because we bring all sorts of baggage with us on our reading journey. A child will view the story through innocent eyes where an adult is searching for the worse case scenario. It would be a shame to deny a child such an entertaining story just because it isn't the whitewash/wonderbread Disney-fied norm.

The love of learning, the sequestered nook and all the sweet serenity of books - Longfellow

has this "friend" of yours ever read C.S. Lewis's The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe? if so, then they can't get away with saying Coraline is too dark for children without being a complete hypocrite.

similar ideas behind the two stories, after all.

Well, I mean look at Harry Potter, that is some serious dark stuff, what with death and all, and I read it at 8. It's the same with Coraline, just more obvious.

Speaking as a mom, and as a daughter...I agree with the post that made the point that we adults bring our own "baggage" with us into the reading. I know that when I read Coraline part of the chills I got reading the story were related to my childhood ambivalence about my own mother, who resembled both the mother and the other mother at times.

I expect a young reader would find some catharsis in Coraline's feelings of contempt, fear, awe, and resolve regarding her other mother. And catharsis is good.

Most Disney villains are females. Good mothers are often killed off in Disney films, while wicked and powerful women are to be triumphed over. That Coraline deals with her other mother, then rescues her parents, is almost a full circle therapeutic process...maybe even represents what all girls and mothers must go through, in some way.

I'm looking forward to sharing Coraline with my daughter (right after she gets out of this nightmare stage she's in.)

Hell yeah. Though I'm "wierd like that" as well. I just like to think that there's children as wierd as we are to read and like stuff like that. It doesn't have to be all about nice things, and rainbows and flowers and happy people with ordinary troubles. But then again... I'm weird, so don't mind me talking.

I'm not sure I would write books like that for children, only because I don't think I could create a story so interesting. Since I am 13, I guess I would be considered a "child" and I found Coraline to be one of the best books I have ever read. It was a little creepy, like the entire "button" episode, but all in all, I thought it was great.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with children reading scary stories. Here's a good quote on it:

"Fairy tales don't teach children that monsters exist.
Children already know that monsters exist.
Fairy tales teach children that monsters can be killed."
--G. K. Chesterton