Hades makes sense (except for the Soma), even the part about the girl: if it was Hades, perhaps he's looking for Persephone? But that still doesn't explain the Soma... I've always associated Soma w/Hindu's.

Edit: Now that I have some more time...

Even though Hades does fit the billing awfully well - sans the bit about Soma - Greek gods are not in American Gods because of the mention of Herodotus's Histories. The Histories was a very, VERY, long prose by Herodotus that portrayed Greek history as if the Gods were apart of it. While that can bring up logical questions about how the hell Shadow understood it AND read it and interpretted the entire thing in two-three years, the book kind of serves as a Metaphor to American Gods itself, meaning having a Greek god would be rendered pointless because of the mentioning and use of the Histories... you can all argue against that, but there were plenty of opportunities to even mention other Greek Gods, yet the book focuses on the lesser known more obscure less... uhm... Disney-ized Gods.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Nereid,

ok The gf this morning mentioned an interesting tidbit of a story this morning which got me thinking especially due to Wednesday's familiarity with said god.

Now my line of thoughts are going down two paths here, either Siegmund(Sigmund) or SiegFried.

Now what makes me think Siegmund is that he starts out in love with his sister(Sieglinde) who get's shafted by her father and mother(Volsung a god and Hjold a goddess) into marrying some asshole. Siegmund turns up at said wedding and may I quote from Wagner's opera The Ring of Nibelungs "My gaze terrifies the wedding guests, but to Sieglinde appears filled with compassion. The terror and the love are the same. What you see depends on your nature." which could explain the waitress part. After like his sister get's sent away to marry some big asshole who kills all of sigmund's family but him and his brothers then chains them up in stocks to die his sister comes out and spreads honey on his face so when the wolf comes to kill him last it starts licking the honey off his face and he bites it's tongue off and kills him, now after this he goes to live under Sieggur(the asshole) grounds woods etc (explaining the marsh appreciation) Sieglinde comes visit him in disguise and sires a child by him which she sends out to sigmund to get tested who then passes the test and they both become very 'wealthy' outlaws. Anyway there are lots of variations of this story but now to come to the part that explains why no-one remembers him afterwards, First of all remember wodan(odin etc) had two ravens named memory and something or other and like he had forgone an eye for wisdom and stuff. (I've been up for too long while writing this so excuse the vagueness). Also there is the whole thing that everyone will remember odin and thor and all that but Tolkein's LoTR bares a massive similarity to the story of all this that starts of course with siegmund and his offspring etc adn to do with a sword reforged through ancestry etc etc but no-one ever mentions this person cause no-one thinks of him.

Anyway my other thoughts lie with Sigurd(and his various other names), especially in regards to the potion which makes him forget about brynhyld. Hence the asking about a 'she' cause he was brainwashed by potion to forget her, as for Odin's vague answer, remember he like left her on a mountain top or something ages ago as punishment for standing up against him. Seems like Gaimen may have based this heavily on wagners opera to see how many of us would see how much some more recent successful books/movies are just an allegory of this norse tale.

Anyway food for thought feel welcome to improve on this. (All credits due to my gf for like brainstorming onto this)

Perhaps he was king soloman, a connection to wealth. The she mentioned could be the queen of sheba, who is mentioned in the book. I don't know of any connection to death, though.
I noticed something interesting, the description of this god was in many ways similar to that of Pollution/Pestilence in "Good Omens.

quote:

---

Originally posted by uselessrocker:
I always thought he was the manifestation of luck because of the what he tells the waitress. Though, why he'd be forgettable is beyond me.

---

I agree with that. He could easily be a god of luck or money and fortune. The fact that he is forgettable is easily explained. People go to places like Vegas to find money and fortune and they certainly need luck. But fortune is so often unattainable, intangible, and easily lost, just as the god is easily forgotten and his memory "lost".

I also think he could be some kind of god of memory or the manipulation of the mind because no one can remember him. But I'm not sure how that would tie into the wealth and luck.
AHH it's all so confusing...you see, Neil just did this to drive us crazy with wondering. I'm betting he doesn't even really know who the god is. It's just...a really messed up puzzle. I love it though.

quote:

---

Originally posted by stevied:
for me its got to be hades. The clues that the guy posted on the "only the gods are real" site, as are reproduced above, point to Hades more firmly than amun or any other god mentioned on this site. Especially the stuff about wealth, loss, death and decay and dark places. Not forgetting of course that Hades is famously forgetable. The only thing that doesn't add up for me is the search for the 'she', if anyone is more knowledgable in the area of gods than I perhaps they can shed some light on this issue.

I thank you

---

The only one Hades would be searching for would be Persephone. I'm blanking out...during which season does that scene take place? Persephone is the maiden of the Spring, and she rules the Underworld with Hades during Winter.

Though the many others are interesting, I'd have to go with Hades as well.
"Hades" means the "Invisible One" from his possession of a helmet that gave him invisibility.
It was bad luck to use the name Hades so most Greeks referred to him as Pluto which means "wealthy".
As Lord of the underworld, he was also the possessor of its riches (gold and jewels).
I believe that the girl is Persephone who left him for half the year (to bring about spring). Perhaps, as with a few of the other American Gods, she simply decided it was easier to fade away.
His realm was formed in a boggy marsh ergo the preference for a marsh-like taste to his drink.
The waters of his realm (from Styx) brought about forgetfullness so that the dead could bear their life below without memories of the world above.

Of all the Greek Gods, I find Hades to be the most interesting.

Ok, I COULD go back and read all the posts on this subject, or I could just be lazy and come up with my own theories and talk about them here.

I like the idea of Hades, because he's so distant and so on, but I think another good guess would be one of the Forgotten Gods that Lovecraft wrote about. The ones that were expelled from earth for practicing Magic.
This could explain how Shadow wouldn't know the name or remember it, the name being older than human's tongue or brain. However, those gods were often depicted as horrors, while our unnamed friend here is quite the opposite.

But there's ANOTHER character who isn't named by name and it's killing me!

Remember the Actor from the old movies, long since thought dead turned out to have goat legs?

I know it's not him, but I can't help picturing Harpo Marx as that character. But, any idea who that actor was supposed to be?

-Steve

Reading about that character in American Gods put me in mind of a Goddess from Pratchett's Discworld universe. Her name cannot be mentioned but she's basically 'Lady Luck'. The whole not remembering the name of the god could have something to do with the fact that talking of luck is generally thought to 'jinx' it, while the images of wealth could be temptations to get people to pray to 'luck' and gamble for that wealth. Vegas fits in too for obvious reasons. Only problem is the gender of the god I guess. It could also be the god of fate I guess (another idea from the Pratchettverse.)

I'm with the Hades people on this. His name is an epithet, because it's just the place he resides, so there's the no-name thing. The Histories argument is a good one, but if there really is a Medusa, or a Gorgon, or whatever, it doesn't hold water. The wealth issue also lends credence to the Hades idea, since gold and precious gems were in the earth/underworld, he had dominion over them in Greek and Roman mythologies. That's where our word "Plutocracy," meaning "rule by wealth" comes from. But my big finisher on this one (and maybe somebody else has already pointed this out - I read the first four pages of discussion before skipping to the last) is that there were three rivers running through the Underworld. Styx, obviously, the most holy river upon which Charon ferried the dead. One other that escapes me at the moment, so I won't worry about it, and also the Lethe, the river of forgetfulness. When you drink from it, you forget everything. So Hades is walking around with this Lethe-aura or something, making everybody except the other gods forget he even exists.
Quick amendment - I just read Giant Spider's post, and I'm looking for clarification. Do you mean what god was the actor supposed to be? That's almost certainly Pan. If you're asking for the actor, I've got nothin'.

My idea is that he is a god of gambling but I dont know of any so yea that is just my 1 and a half sense.

quote:

---

Originally posted by enmare:
Well, in fact, Hades itself is an epithet (although I forget the etymology). The true name of that god has been lost.

The Greeks had a true taboo on naming the guy.

---

well hades does seem resonable but i like the Plutus ides more myself my junior class in High School is studying this book

Is there any chance that he was Dionysus?
It's possible. Dionysus was a god of celebration, and he would be right at home in Vegas. I remember hearing something about how people who saw his parties with the Maenads either forgot about them afterwards or went mad. Does this make any sense, I wonder...

Well, I read through this whole topic, mostly because of a matter of curiosity and of a more spiritual nature.
Your ideas are fascinating and my romantic side wishes for Hades, longing for Persephone (I love the interpretation that thiers is a forbidden and passionate love affair and they are kept apart by other forces, etc....).

And about the supposed quote by Mr. Gaiman about there being no Greek Gods in the book, well, let's hypothetically say the god is indeed Hades. But, if you think about it...he really isn't in the book...is he?

Ask Neil no questions, and he'll tell you no lies.

Some other thoughts that occured to be whislt falling asleep. I am thinking that he could be a African God, given what I know about them. This site gives a bit about Eshu-Elegba...doesn't mention the forgetting him...but he is the Trickster God.Eshu-Elegba
The highlights, in case you suffer from slow dial-up:
-Prayer to Elegba:
I humble myself before the mysteries of Eshu-Elegba.
You are the Messenger of Olodumare and Orisha and the Ancestors.
You are the Owner of the Mysteries of the Four Directions, north, south, east, and west.
You are the Keeper of the Ase of the Orisha.
You are the Guardian of the Gates of Fortune, Good and Evil.
You are the Lord of Flexibility.
You are the Lord of Choice, Chance, and Change

-Blurb about him:
Eshu is that essential quality or characteristic of the ‘Cosmic Essence’ which allows information to be exchanged within the Consciousness of Creator and the Womb of Creation. In the language of Ifa, Eshu is the one, “...without whom nothing can be accomplished”. My personal experiences dealing with the Ase of Eshu-Elegba have given me a strong sense of his dual nature. I might say that it is Elegba to whom I pay homage when I ask for the Gates of Heaven to be opened so that my voice might be heard in the High Places; and it is Eshu to whom I make ebo when taking a journey, or trying to avoid failure. But this would provide too narrow a perspective of this complex sentient Being and the powers that he exercises in the Ase. Epega-Agbede’s descriptions of Elegba and Eshu may emphasize my point.

“Elegba or Elegbara is both a cognomen and aspects of the orisha Eshu. Elegba is the trickster and the keeper of ase. He opens and closes the doors to opportunity. He is the policeman of the spirit world. He has the ability to turn order into chaos. He is the spirit that allows transformation. It is Elegba who offers you choices. It is Elegba who is the divine messenger, carrying prayers, petitions and sacrifices to other orisha and spirits. He is always appeased first because he is capable of disrupting or misguiding prayers, offerings, sacrifices and rituals.”

“Eshu is the most complex orisha in the Yoruba pantheon. Known to have twenty-one different aspects, Eshu is known as the Trickster. He is the keeper of Force (Ase). He is the divine messenger, carrying prayers, petitions, food and sacrifices to the orisha. He is the Policeman of the orisha, who deals out punishment, when it is due.”

From GodChecker- Eshu

ESHU: Very popular Trickster God. Particularly keen on Opportunity, Communication and Instant Messaging.

ESHU directs traffic along the Road of Life from his abode at the Crossroads of Fortune. If you're faced with an important choice or a powerful opportunity, ESHU can offer advice to help swing things your way. A super-speedy go-between, he can carry complaints to the Gods, questions to the spirit world, and messages to any living thing.

With his connections, ESHU can be a powerful ally. But he's also a God with a sense of humor and will often throw a spanner in the works to keep life interesting. This could explain why we don't always get what we want. Be careful - this God of crossroads is also a master of cross-purposes.

But his colors are usually black, red, and white, not grey. But he does like his offering to be smoked or grilled and he loves booze and strong coffee with no sugar.
Still no hits on the forgetting thing, but dead-on with the wealth and opportunity thing, also seeing the nodes and the paths...he is the God of the Road...and not just the one on which you'd drive...but spiritual and other Roads as well.
He has a consort-sister named Pomba in some cultures, but that doesn't explain the missing "her" from 200 years ago.

And remeber, Shadow doesn't forget THE GOD, just what he SAYS. I think that's important.

Haya guys.

Been looking around on this one. I know that Greek Gods were a no-no, but I think this guy might be Roman.

It might be Mercurius.

Mercurius was the Roman god of merchants and trade and also of luck. This would explain a number of the things he was able to do during the Las Vegas scenes. As the God of luck, it is only natural that he would migrate to Las Vegas (How he got to America in the first place is something I haven't yet considered )

More importantly though, are the next few points. Alchemist CG Jung looked into Mercurius and had the following to say.

"The alchemists, with astonishing accuracy, called this barely understandable thing Mercurius, in which concept they included all the statements which mythology and natural philosophy had ever made about him: he is God, daemon, person, thing, and the innermost secret in man; psychic as well as somatic...This elusive entity symbolizes the unconscious in every particular, and a correct assessment of symbols leads to direct confrontation with it."

Realising that this is a good starting point, I looked up some analysis of Jung's work. Which turned this up

"They experienced their own image of God via the trickster figure Mercurius, who, unlike the pure figure of Christ, was ambiguous, paradoxical and dark, not to mention utterly pagan... Mercurius was related to Hermes, the Germanic Wotan, the Egyptian Thoth, and the maleficent Saturn."

Of course he'd be part of it, since one of his relatives was organising the thing and another was heavily involved. That he is vague and ambiguous would explain why no one can remember his name or who he is.

The only part that makes no sense at all is the soma...

Here is an interesting clue that nobody brought up yet (by the way this is my first time posting yada yada yada): The god's name is hard to remember because he has no name, lost it, or had it removed. This is why in the end Shadow seems to resemble this god.

After Shadow dies Zorya P. removes his name. The other gods remember who he is and is able to grasp who he is because, well they're gods. Fellow humans however forget him or don't seem to notice him (ie: when Sam and her girlfriend walk past him and neglect to remember him handing Sam the flowers)

I am willing to bet Chad also forgets he met Shadow afterward...but he also knew Shadow by his false name even though if anyone should know it it should be the cop who turned him in.

Not to beat a dead horse but such truly "nameless" gods I believe would fall under either Pluto and Amen (as mentioned previously) since both are apparently "nameless".

Herodotus also does mention "The Hidden One" in his Histories (I take this to mean Amen) and of the secret rituals that Egyptians would hold for this diety. Being known for giving detail on rituals and the like Herodotus leaves the details out...as if he had forgotten them. Hmm...

I thought you were going to make some cool connection that the unnamed/unmemorable god is somehow Shadow himself...like some parallel self or a looped back self...like after he figures out his true heritage.
Because when you were talking about the name being removed and Sam and the flowers...

Maybe out in left field here, but it seems like a wicked cool theory.

I was going to further elaborate but I realized I was late for leaving work. heh.

It definitely makes sense that this god would be apt to be Pluto/Hades. Though this would be the obvious choice and in American Gods the only real obvious god was Odin/Wednesday himself.

Pluto/Hades always seperated himself from the Greek/Roman Pantheon and kept mainly to himself except for his wife Persephone. This has already been covered though of course.

Pluto/Hades' eye for trickery or distaste for it could come from the story of Sissyphus and how he was able to con his way out of the underworld. Upon learning of being deceived Pluto/Hades was pretty damned pissed and he had never been tricked before.

His soft side also comes through in the more famous story of his (names escape me) where he allows this woman's husband to look for her in the underworld...god, the details of this story escape me.

The charcoal colored suit could represent the gloomy nature of the Greek/Roman underworld which was always said to be full of dark mist.

Anyway, I am beating a dead horse here but I just wanted to throw out a couple other theories. I hope they help.

I didnt read the full 13 pages so if this was said, Im sorry...

I think the god was sort of based on countless gods who nobody remembers, at all. Its not about him not having a name, but more about none of us being able to figure it out. I dont think any of the gods mentioned fit this description because we can still FIND them, this guy was a representation of all the gods who are Lost to us through history.

Orpheus and Eurydice.
He coaxed himself into the Underworld because he was a great singer and harper. Orpheus was allowed to take Eurydice out provided he got all the way home withouth looking back. But he was so afraid that he was bring tricked, he looked back early and she was yanked back by Hades.
Later, Orpheus wandered the earth and was eventually torn limb from limb by a pack of ecstatic women spurned on by Dionysian/Bacchinalian revelry.

I think if the unnamed/immemorable god was in fact Hades/Pluto, there would be *more* somehow.
I don't recall Hades/Pluto having anything to do with being able to "follow the wealth."