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Archus dracomagii
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Picture of Chomiji
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But in that case, who came to America and worshipped Pluto? Or Hades, for that matter?

The whole theory is that the "American Gods" came about when their believers ended up in America.

- Cho


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
You are a Confectioner. Who can take a sunrise and sprinkle it with dew? Actually, that's Bob The Enchanter, two doors down on the left. But you make delectable treats, which is no simple feat considering Oompa Loompas won't be invented for three centuries. Not only do you delight with your sweets, but you've paved the way for a new profession: dentistry!

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
the blog thing: From an Ayewards World ...
 
Posts: 2603 | Location: Takoma Park, MD, USA | Registered: June 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"Nobody really worshiped Luck"

Tell that to the millions and millions who flock into casinos and bingo halls, who toss more of their hard earned cash at lottery tickets, and scratch-and-win "idiot tax" than they can afford to every day.....

and well, when we've BEEN lucky how quickly we FORGET it was Luck, and ascribe it to some 'skill' we think we possess...
 
Posts: 442 | Registered: August 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Archus dracomagii
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Picture of Chomiji
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>nodding<

"Luck" was my guess. No person thinks that he "prays to luck," but who is being petitioned when someone shakes the dice or scratches off a lottery ticket, pleading: "Oh please, oh please oh please !" ???

- Cho


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
You are a Confectioner. Who can take a sunrise and sprinkle it with dew? Actually, that's Bob The Enchanter, two doors down on the left. But you make delectable treats, which is no simple feat considering Oompa Loompas won't be invented for three centuries. Not only do you delight with your sweets, but you've paved the way for a new profession: dentistry!

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
the blog thing: From an Ayewards World ...
 
Posts: 2603 | Location: Takoma Park, MD, USA | Registered: June 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
From out of the cloven pine
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Picture of Weaver
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Yep, Luck is definatly not lacking in the worship department. It's probably the only thing that everyone worships.I thought that was what he was as well, although most people seem to think of Luck as female (damn Romans).


The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
 
Posts: 1072 | Location: Kingdom of Albion | Registered: May 19, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It may be that Gaiman was writing about Luck. However, if he was, he was totally out of step with historical attitudes in Northern Europe towards luck. And I would have thought that North European attitudes would have been important to him since several of the key gods in his story, like Wednesday, are of Northern European origin.

Luck was not a god that was worhsipped or prayed to. Luck was a commodity that you had or did not have. Actions that you did could make you more (or less) lucky. You could also borrow and lend luck. And there were many different sorts of luck like fishing luck, travelling luck, cattle luck, friends luck, to name but a few. Incidentally, the Old Norse word for luck was sæll and it's the root of our modern world silly!

So unless Gaiman chose to ignore all of that, I can't see the unnamed god being Luck.
 
Posts: 15 | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Archus dracomagii
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Picture of Chomiji
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>>>he was totally out of step with historical attitudes in Northern Europe towards luck<<<

Yeah, maybe, but that doesn't signify in this case. These are, after all, American Gods, brought into existence by beliefs in the Americas, and especially the United States in the 20th century.

So maybe Luck would manifest itself differently in Europe. That doesn't mean that Gaiman is off-base in any way.

- Cho


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
You are a Confectioner. Who can take a sunrise and sprinkle it with dew? Actually, that's Bob The Enchanter, two doors down on the left. But you make delectable treats, which is no simple feat considering Oompa Loompas won't be invented for three centuries. Not only do you delight with your sweets, but you've paved the way for a new profession: dentistry!

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
the blog thing: From an Ayewards World ...
 
Posts: 2603 | Location: Takoma Park, MD, USA | Registered: June 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of MrCroup
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I have heard of Luck refered to as "The lady who's name we must not speak" so that is who I figured it was.


"When the going get weird, the weird turn pro."
 
Posts: 46 | Location: lost | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Only sounds like Keith Flint
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Picture of Rob!
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quote:
Originally posted by Chomiji:
>>>he was totally out of step with historical attitudes in Northern Europe towards luck<<<

Yeah, maybe, but that doesn't signify in this case. These are, after all, American Gods, brought into existence by beliefs in the Americas, and especially the United States in the 20th century.

So maybe Luck would manifest itself differently in Europe. That doesn't mean that Gaiman is off-base in any way.

- Cho


I dont believe its "luck" myself.

Nobody talks about Mr. Luck, its always Lady Luck.

And although people ignore how much they sacrifice to luck, they never really forget about Luck.
 
Posts: 2193 | Location: LA... sort of. | Registered: April 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
From out of the cloven pine
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Picture of Weaver
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I knew he probably wasn't luck, the whole Lady Luck thing is too ingrained. It was just an idea I had because Vegas was involved. I was also working on a story where Luck was male at the time I read AG which probably affected my thinking a bit. I once read a theory that he was Fortune or fate. Doubt there's anything to it but interesting nevertheless. Incidently didn't Wednesday say something about a woman when he was talking with him?


The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
 
Posts: 1072 | Location: Kingdom of Albion | Registered: May 19, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I my name is guillaume oudaer and i'm a french student in history and mythology (especially celtic and indo-european)and I'm a neil gaiman's fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Smile

for the unnamed god of Vegas, I think that Hades is not the good answer.

Why?

Because the soma and the luck-like location of vegas

there is a hindu (precisely vedic) god of luck and his name is Bhaga, and one of his attribute is the dice

ps : excuse me for my english but is not fluent
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: January 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of ScrumYummy
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This is just an idea, and I don't think anyone else will like it. But maybe, because the god is unnamed and nobody can remember what he looks like, couldn't it be that the same idea is supposed to transpose into the real world--in other words, we wouldn't be able to remember his name or what he looked like, either? Maybe Gaiman won't release the name of the god because that would ruin the illusion that we can't remember his name.


-Scrum
The old man in the falafel cart is out to get you. This is your only warning.
 
Posts: 10 | Location: Portland, OR | Registered: November 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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theres another message board on which someone goes into great detail and is very convincing that the god is mercury. (precisely drawing from the vedic hindu version bhuda - and bhaga could be easily confused - nod to oudear who seems on the right path
)i would suggest that he explained it better than i could and recommend that you visit this page: http://neilgaimanboard.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/179602665/m/570603665/p/14
but how to ask neil without spoiling it for everyone else....
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: February 05, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Plus: Budha, Agni, Indra, Chandra (And a few more) were as noted in above post the VEDIC gods of India--that is, they were pre-Hindu. Hinduism has a currently worshipped central pantheon of Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, who, along with all their avatars and consorts and subincarnations (Krishna, Ganesha, etc.) result in the 1,000s of Hindu gods now in circulation.

India's recorded history (as defined by: they had money) goes back at least to 6,000 BC--older than Egypt. So the vedic gods could well be a set of forgotten gods.

And even for folks who know of Indra, etc. (ex: my Art-History-of-India courses), Budha is one they may not have come across before--I hadn't. Congrats to amaz0n for great research!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Taoist "Wooo-weeee!" The bosom that can be tamed is not a real bosom.

Dammit babies, you've got to be kind!
~Kurt Vonnegut
 
Posts: 179 | Location: yes | Registered: January 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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One mo' thang re: luck:
Medieval version is Fortuna (a lady). Also Fate. Find her on Tarot cards as the wheel of fortune, and also displayed in Gothic cathedrals as the rose window (representing Mary) at the opposite end from the nave, a window which also often shows the zodiac--layers of symbolism all in one object...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Taoist "Wooo-weeee!" The bosom that can be tamed is not a real bosom.

Dammit babies, you've got to be kind!
~Kurt Vonnegut
 
Posts: 179 | Location: yes | Registered: January 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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*beats a dead horse*

I'll put $10 up to anyone who can prove me wrong...

The forgotten guy? He's one of the "Rights" stated by americans a little over 200 years ago...I'm willing to bet that he's the "pursuit of happiness", as stated in the Declaration of Independence. Where else but Vegas are you gonna get a bunch of suckers in the "pursuit of happiness" these days? How many people can honestly say that they remember the pursuit of happiness after they have achieved that happiness? Here is how it goes...he talks, you listen, you get him, you forget him. The pursuit of happiness (as evidenced by him being in Vegas) for most everyone these days is $$. A lot of people these days confuse happiness for having gobs of moolah, which is why Shadow was left with the "impression of wealth". Oh yeah, and the gal he's looking for? Lady Liberty, sometimes she's a hard one to find.

That's $10 to anyone who proves me wrong.
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: April 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ha! To me the pursuit of happiness is in the same category is what is so deliciously described by Dr. Frank N. Furter as
"Antici-


PAYssshunnn"...

The journey, not the destination, or as folks around here (lots of sea & waterways) explain,
"It's called fishing, not catching."

In other words, money ain't got nothin' to do with it.

That'll be ten dollah, pleez.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Taoist "Wooo-weeee!" The bosom that can be tamed is not a real bosom.

Dammit babies, you've got to be kind!
~Kurt Vonnegut
 
Posts: 179 | Location: yes | Registered: January 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I do believe you misunderstood me...I said I will give up a ten spot for proving me wrong. I fail to see how you've done that.

In other words..."go on Lucy 'splain"
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: April 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Oh! You be right. My enthusiasm was misplaced...

Well, I will say that the Lady hangin' out in LV could ONLY be Lady Luck; Madame Liberty wouldn't be caught dead there--we'd look for her in Philly or NYC.

Here's my thought: we are all having a great time & working really hard on identifying these gods, tracing their myths, etc.--educating ourselves, in fact--but I'm not sure how hard Neil wants to make his readers work.

Fortune seems to be to be a fairly simple & logical identification for the unnamed god, but "the pursuit of happiness"--you are then saying that there's also, in that triad delineated by Mr. Jefferson et al, the god/goddess of Life? Geez, that would be half the gods on the planet. And Liberty is a philosophical/political construct.

I mean, the Mayans have a god of flowers and perfume, and a goddess of bees, but for us to look in that pantheon or among the Aztecs further than a couple of the big guys (like Chacmool, Queztalcoatl, and Ixchel) is really expecting a lot of the reader. To what extent does the author want his/her reader spiralling out WAAY past the story into research?

That's why I don't think it's pursuit of happiness. Y'all who are in contact with Neil might want to ask him this question.

(I know, I don't get the moola. Let's keep talkin'.)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Taoist "Wooo-weeee!" The bosom that can be tamed is not a real bosom.

Dammit babies, you've got to be kind!
~Kurt Vonnegut
 
Posts: 179 | Location: yes | Registered: January 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Nisi
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I'm all about the Hades solution. After a long drawn out discussion with an old co-worker and Gaiman fan about it and each of us spending a few nights buried in Mythological texts and internet sites, this is what we came up with as well.

I did catch the Discworld thing as well, but, as also pointed out, she's a gal.

As far as the soma goes, having been 'Americanized' why would the gods not learn to appreciate the cultural fares of each other eventually as the people who worship them do?


Stars is easy, people is hard. - Granny Weatherwax
 
Posts: 36 | Location: Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: April 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hey y'all.

I just finished reading American Gods for the second time. I've been trying to keep up with this thread since the "unnamed god" has certainly been a god of interest.

If I repeat anything that has already been mentioned, I apologize ahead of time.

The "Luck" theory- I disagree with this idea. The gods that join Wednesday are all specified "gods" and not a person concerning popular interest such as the "tech boy". The characters are lead to believe that a war is being waged based on the conflict between old and new gods and "luck" would be (or at least i've come to believe) a new god being that there are no "set" or "written" ways to worship him. Luck is usually a female anyhow and our unknown god is a "large man in a gray suit."

The same reasoning goes for "the persuit of happiness" theory. The old gods have means of power through being worshipped.

The bhaga theory- Bhaga is an ancient god of wealth and marriage. There is no mention of forgotten memory and such when it comes to this god. Bhaga was blinded by Virabhadra at one point therefor I think that IF the "unknown god" was Bhaga, Neil Gaiman would have made some mention of the blindeness.

There was a question of "who worsips Hades?". Hades WAS in fact worshipped. The greeks would bang thier heads on the ground to make sure that he heard them. Sacrafices were made to him, and oaths were sworn in his name.

Within the question of "who worships Hades?" was also the question of "who worshipped him in AMERICA?" A handful of the gods fighting by Wednesdays side were worshipped outside of America. I believe the title "American Gods" has more to do with the "new" gods rather than putting all the gods in the book into a category of being worshipped ONLY in America.

Whew. Sorry for the legnth of this damn thing.
:/

I havn't gotten to Hades yet but I will in a day or two. (And in case you were wondering, I personally don't believe the "unknown god" is Hades. But I'll get to that in my next post.)

To thos of you who made it through this post, congratlations. Keep an eye out for more in the upcoming future.

Big Grin

-B
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: March 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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