I am reading AG after finding first Coraline and then Stardust and wanting more of this writer who builds bridges between worlds.

I am a person of British/American nationality, and have spent a lifetime in pull between the two cultures. For me, AG gives voice (finally) to some of the internal conflicts/joys of being bi--national

I'm not sure if anyone else has said so or not, but welcome to the board. I have found myself returning here after a long absence and I am glad to be back.
Although I wouldn't describe myself as bi-national, I have lived in Britain and America (but mostly America) and I can relate to the push and pull between the two cultures.
Cheers,
Parsival

How do you do, Parsival. Good to read you.
I should clarify my "bi-national" reference, I think. It isn't exactly accurate to describe myself that way, really. I have lived in America mostly as well, and technically, I am not bi-national either but I don't know how else to see myself. My mom married a Brit when I was 4, and we lived in England until I was 11. My brother was born over there, and even after we returned to the States there was a lot of contact between the two factions of our family. So now I have family in both countries, and I married a Brit as well. Our children are bi-national, and we are, as a family, bi-cultural.

In college I spent a lot of energy on class stratification in British culture, and on linguistic variation among English speakers in the British Isles.

In addition to the duality of location in my family, we have an extreme socio-economic divide. My family of origin in England are very upper middle class, whereas my husband's family is East-end London all the way. His Gran was born within the sound of the Bow bells, thus she was a true Cockney (and very proud).
I have always felt a sort of--pinch, for want of a better word--when members of either class, or either country judge the other...I can see both perspectives, and don't feel capable of adequately voicing my awareness. This is what I mean by push and pull...partly. Then there is also the missing of each place, no matter where I am.

I do some creative writing, and these issues keep surfacing in my stories. I love the new immigrant writers, and writers of multiple cultures. Neil's voice feels like home, in some respects.

Hope this isn't way more info than you wanted--I'd love to hear about your history with the two places.

Til then,
Madmags

That's not too much info. It's interesting to hear other's experiences. I know I like talking about experiences in both countries.
I grew up in Louisiana, but I was exposed to certain aspects of British culture from an early age, mainly pop culture (Monty Python for example). After reading too much about King Arthur, I developed an academic interest in British history. In my teens I read books on archaeology and history from prehistory through the middle ages, which is what I ended up studying in college. I participated in an exchange program and attended the University of Manchester for a year. After returning to the US and finishing my BAs, I returned to England and pursued Master's Degree in Archaeology at Reading. I am currently in the US, but I am in the process of applying to PhD programs and I am looking at schools on both sides of the pond.
While I was there, I felt at home, and many of my friends would often forget that I was American. I assimilated enough that any Americans I encountered thought I was British, but this was not often the case with Brits. Many could still tell that I was American.
I was only in England for a couple of years, so I'm not familiar with all the nuances of British culture. The whole class stratification seems alien to me.
The thing that bugs me about comparing the two cultures though, is that when discussing it, I often feel pressured to declare that one culture is superior to another. I don't see it that way. There are great things I enjoy about living in England. There are things that I hated about living in England. The same can be said about living in America.
Well, those are some thoughts off the top of my head. I may try and clarify these thoughts later.
Cheers,
Michael

Hi again.
Thanks for filling me in. What PhD programs are you looking at? Archaeology, history, or something else?

I have given up on a grad program for now, although I came to the town I live in to attend university as a post-bachelor, expecting to apply to grad school. I'm working now, though, in the schools, with kids with special needs. It's rewarding work, and if I were to go back for my teaching degree I would probably not get a teaching position with ease. Here in Oregon we are laying off 8000 teachers this year, and that's on top of many recent budget cuts and lay-offs last year. I feel fortunate to be working at all right now, actually.

I got off the plane at Manchester the last time I went over to England. I remember a very post-industrial feeling...much concrete and that classic, heavy gray English sky.

Yes, yes, yes--the competition between the two cultures is intense. My mother couldn't handle her life over there, being "the American girl" who could never get anything right, no matter what. To this day she hates England.

I have got used to explaining that I am not an apologist for the U.S. I've had some memorable experiences being drawn and quartered at parties and dinners...it seems no matter how reserved the British are (hah...just give them another pint or two and it all changes anyway ) there are always a number who are ready to lambast anything American they come into contact with...unless it is Baywatch!
Of course, this is massive generalization and terribly unfair...no matter how true.

Did anything like this happen to you...after a number of months in England I got on a train and there was an American family riding. It helped that they had Texas accents, of course, but I had the bizarre experience of regarding them through the same set of (unfair) judgments that would be typical of an English person. Yet, I could still, at the same time, understand how those judgments fell short of the true picture. I wanted to talk to them, tell them I understood some of what I assumed they must be going through, but I couldn't bring myself to, because I was back into my English persona/attitude and found myself really turned off to their mannerisms. Talk about an identity crisis.

I saw some wonderful churches. I'm not particularly inclined toward any organized theology, but I love the history of organized religion because it says so much about the internal conditions of people throughout time. So when I last went to GB I traveled with the theme (have you traveled with a theme? It works really well) of "spiritual beliefs of the British Isles" and I saw some amazing churches, abbeys, cathedrals, and went to see the Lindesfarne Bible as well. I visited a Cistercian (spelling?) Abbey in Yorkshire that was absolutely incredible. I couldn't believe this 900 year old building was open to the public--pieces of the walls were falling to the ground and being trod upon, becoming part of the path. It was truly haunting. I brought back some pictures, and a piece of the wall/ground (which I gave away to a friend in need some time later.)

The next time I go I'm going to explore some of the pre-christian spiritual history. I've been to Stonehenge, but would love to see other stone circles, and the chalk drawings. I've spent no time at all in the west country.

Children need to go to bed, so I must sharpen my reading skills to do a convincing Gollum. Until next time,

Cheers,

Madmaggy

"I have got used to explaining that I am not an apologist for the U.S. I've had some memorable experiences being drawn and quartered at parties and dinners...it seems no matter how reserved the British are (hah...just give them another pint or two and it all changes anyway ) there are always a number who are ready to lambast anything American they come into contact with...unless it is Baywatch!
Of course, this is massive generalization and terribly unfair...no matter how true."

Wow. You hit the nail on the head with this description. I could not have said it better myself. I got tired of explaining to people that I wasn't personally responsible for every evil thing the American government did. I agreed with them when they brought up many of the terrible things Uncle Sam perpetrated, many without knowledge or consent of the American people. Yet bring up equally terrible things that their government did or any of the many great things the US accomplished, such as the Marshall plan, and they would never concede. No matter how passionate I was I could not seem to convey that there is a difference between the American government and the American culture, and that the latter was not what you see on Jerry Springer. Never mind the barbaric behavior you could see in any town centre in England on any Friday night. There were such mixed emotions when I was the brunt of attacks on American culture. I know it's flaws first hand yet I was aggravated when people who never lived or set foot in America felt the urge to blame it for everything wrong in the world today.
But before I go on and on about the bad things about life in the UK, I enjoyed many things about it. I loved the fact that I didn't need a car to get around. I really enjoyed the respect given to academia, intellectualism, literature, arts, etc. It was great to live somewhere where an author can be as big of a celebrity as an actor; where there are popular prime time tv shows about history and archaeology. I had a rude awakening watching (and listening- I miss the BBC) news programs in England. They don't just report news about Britain. They report about what's really going on around the world, even if it doesn't directly involve the US or the UK. That's something that I'd like to see here.
Okay, now that that rant is done. I am looking at interdisciplinary PhD programs in medieval studies. This way I can combine archaeology and history. There aren't many. Well, York is the only place in the UK with such a program, and I actually got the rejection letter from them yesterday. I also applied to Glasgow, but it's just an MA program. I'd be willing to go there if I don't get accepted anywhere else because I'd probably be able to stay there after the MA for a PhD.
I didn't really do themed travels. I just traveled as many places as I could as often as I could go. I've seen quite a bit of the UK. I fell in love with Scotland, which is why I'd be willing to go to Glasgow for another MA. I participated in the excavation of a stone circle, called Tomnaverie, in Aberdeenshire. Speaking of stone circles, I recommend Avebury. I think it's more impressive than Stonehenge. The area of the stone circle is so large that there is a village in the center, complete with a pub, the Red Lion, which is also an inn. I was there for the autumnal eqionox in 2002.
As far as Christian temples, Yorkminster and Salisbury are pretty impressive. I could go on about all my travels, but it is getting late.
I will say this though. Manchester was very grey and dreary. I remember there being about 5 nice, sunny days in the year I was there. The town itself was not bad. I think it was experiencing a growth in culture while I was there. It isn't really a tourist destination, but there were theatre and art and film venues all over, and the nightlife ... was a tempting distraction from my studies.
Well, I think that's a long enough post.
Cheers,
Parsival

[This message was edited by parsival on February 19, 2004 at 05:41 AM.]

Happy dreams, Parsival.
Anon,
Madmaggy

P.S...
I fell in love with Scotland, too. Edinburgh. (Sigh)
Ciao.

Hello again Madmaggy (and anyone else who stumbles upon this thread),
I suppose I should discuss how this all relates to American Gods, since that is the forum for this thread. I didn't mention it in my last post, but I understood what you meant when you described your experience with the Texans on the train. I too, got lost in British culture and I feel I developed a separate identity different than who I am over here. I empathized with the way Brits felt towards Americans whenever I encountered the two-week tourists. I came across many obnoxious Americans. As a result, I made a conscious effort to demonstrate that not all Americans fit the stereotype. Yet I was frustrated when my friends would make generalizations about Americans. I would say to them, "What about me? I'm not like that." And they would reply, "Yes, but you're the exception," and they would continue to hold the stereotype.
So, I feel American Gods accurately depicts this pull between cultures. During the signing tour, and in interviews, Neil said that American Gods is pretty much a direct result of the push and pull between cultures that he experienced when he moved to America. I recall Neil telling a story about realizing that he'd been away from England too long when he asked directions in London, and the nice little old lady told him "You'll want to take a bus. It's one of those big red things."
Speaking of giving directions, I didn't physically stick out as an American (mainly because I don't usually wear blue jeans and white trainers ) and I would often get asked directions. This happened on several occasions while I was in London (I would often go into London for the day from Reading, which is only about half an hour away by train), and I just relished the shocked look of horror when I replied and the lost Brit would realize they had asked an American <GASP> for directions. I always imagined that they felt worse when they reached their destination and they discovered that not only did they ask an American for directions, but that the American's directions were correct.
So, yes Scotland. Edinburgh is my favorite city. It is small yet very cosmopolitan. It became more difficult to leave with each visit.
My girlfriend feels the same way. Like me, she grew up with a desire to travel to England. We both have a thing for British literature. I'm more into Beowulf, she's into Coleridge and Byron and the Romantics. We intersect at Shakespeare and Neil. (Alan Moore is another mutual favorite.) My girlfriend had never been to the UK when we started dating, but we went there together in 2002. Now she has that same dreamy look in her eyes and sigh in her voice whenever someone mentions Edinburgh or Scotland. This is amazing because she hates the cold. She's had trouble with the past two winters, and she lives in New Orleans! I don't know what she's going to do if I get into Cornell (one of the US schools I've applied to). She's pulling for Emory.
Cheers,
Parsival

[This message was edited by parsival on February 19, 2004 at 06:55 AM.]

Hey Parsival, you and your girlfriend ever stay at the backpacker's hostel in Edinburgh?

Why yes. When in Edinburgh, I usually stayed in High Street Hostel. Last time I was there, though, my girlfriend and I stayed at Castle Rock Hostel. Both are in excellent locations in Old Town.