I cannot speak for everyone else, but personally I am quite tired of Shadow (and ANY literary character who returns from a fate of death) being referred to as a "Christ Figure". As far as I can tell, the only christ figure in this book (quite a wonderful display of mythological research and understanding BTW)is the one referenced as hitch-hiking in Afghanistan.
I was unaware that Christianity held a patent on the concept of resurrection? The myths and faiths that many of these Deities are based on pre-date Christianity by hundreds, even thousands of years. Shadow's character appears to be loosely based on an amalgam of the combined legends of Thor and Baldur (personality/physical appearance/fate).
Nowhere do I see a correlation between Shadow and Christ other than the resurrection, which as I've already stated is not an exclusivity to Christianity. In fact, there are a few factions of scholars/theologens (probably more than a few) that purport that the "legend" of Christ is truly based on accounts from many much older faiths.
Please do not take this as an attack on Christianity itself. This is mereley me venting my frustration at the limitation people place on themselves by relying on such overused archetypes. I'm sorry, that will be the end of my little tirade.
--Chimera
"The path to enlightenment is paved with the bones of the lost.
All archtypes are overused. That's why they're archtypes. They're the cliches of ideas (as opposed to words).
As for the use of "christ-figure" for the eternally good that dies and comes back to life, that is merely a reflection of the influence that christianity in general (and the King James Bible in specific for English) has had upon Europe/America. It's the archtype all the yokels know.
Of course, given the extreme influence of the Norse mythology in this book, I must agree that it's probably not the most accurate comparison one could make.
Posts: 1471 | Location: Erie, Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: July 22, 2002
Another aspect of the literary "Christ-like figure" is that they are peace-makers. Shadow manages to quell the war of the gods peacefully.
Not trying to say he is a "Christ-like figure," I agree, he's more like Baldur. Didn't Baldur have to be killed in order for Ragnarok to take place, at least in some legends. A little fuzzy on my Norse mythology at the moment.
------------------------- In the end, I'm left with a selective memory and the tyranny of eternal hope.
Posts: 43006 | Location: Concord, NH, USA | Registered: July 20, 2001
Chimera please don't start two threads that are exactly the same on different forums. I like reading through everything but my computer is slow already.
Posts: 4001 | Location: Sacramento, CA, US | Registered: August 17, 2001
There will be many mythologically-impaired folk that just won't understand that the ideas that they have been raised on have existed for a long time and transcend culture. Shadow/Baldur is perfect example.
Many people want to call Lord of the Rings a Christian myth. WRONG. Tolkien blantantly used Nordic Eddas to formulate that world. He taught them when professing at University. He knew them inside and out, why wouldn't he use them? Since he was Catholic, and Gandalf returned from the dead, they want to immediately paste "Christian" on it. LOTR and American Gods are about as Christian as Beowulf, which has also been mis-labeled.
Being a Christ figure is much more complicated than just dying and being resurrected. The more you follow the life of Christ, the closer you'll become. For example, Shadow wasn't killed because of a betrayal of a friend (except in the broadest possible sense). He also didn't sacrifice himself for mankind, even though that's how it turned out.
Yeah, you could make a case for it, but I wouldn't. There are other figures in literature that follow much more closely, without having to stretch a point just to attach a messiah onto yet another story.
=Brian
Posts: 90 | Location: Charlottesville, VA | Registered: August 11, 2001
Wasn't Wednesday purposely trying to get himself a son, in order to sacrifice him a la the Christain God? Although I would have to agree that Shadow didn't go along with the plan. However, sneakey bugger that Wednesday.
My first post here, as I just finished reading the book, but I'm kinda leaning towards Shadow being Jesus. Wednesday said himself that it was rare for gods and human to create a child together. Just because Wednesday slept with his mother doesn't mean that they had a child together. If that's the case, Shadow's mother could be compared to the Virgin Mary. Jesus was born and lived as a man, which Shadow did until he was brought back. Shadow willingly goes to the tree and in doing so is abandoned by his friends, who leave him there to die. The longest someone lived on the cross was actually nine days, which is how long Shadow was supposed to stay on the tree. He died much sooner than that, somewhere between 2 and 4 days, which is how long Jesus lasted. I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it before, but Shadow was brought back to life by Easter. In Christianity, Easter is the celebration of Jesus being brought back to life. On page 493, it also says "It was a wet March day...", which is generally when Easter is celebrated. When Jesus did die, the Romans came and stabbed him in the side with a spear, which Mr. Town symbolically did with the stick from the tree when he saw Shadow. Then description even says that it looks like the wound one would get from a spear. Not saying it's the absolute truth, cause there's plenty of evidence for Shadow being Baldur as well. Just some other points to consider.
Posts: 2 | Location: U.S.A. | Registered: December 23, 2002
-Shadow is refered to as a 'Christ figure', not because it is the original example of resurrection, but because it is the most well known. This makes it very easy to convey what is trying to be said to the largest group of probable readers...
-I do not personally agree with christianity, but have to be impressed with it's popularity. Even people NOT of this religion know the basic story and ideas behind it. This makes it an excellent story element and one that should not be missing from a book about gods...
-god is what mind becomes when it has passed beyond the scope of our comprehension-
The thing about easter is that it's a pagan holiday. It's celebration of life and fertility after the cold death of winter. The christians just co-opted it because when the missionaries couldn't convince the pagans to give it up. So they pretended it was really a christian holiday. Honestly, how much do you think rabbits have to do with jesus, commpared to fertility?
the tree on which he hangs is a world tree, and in Norse mythology the tree that Odin hanged from for 9 days to learn all he learned, also with a spear wound in his side.
The god's may not have many succesful children, but it's not for lack of trying. Whereas the Judeo-christian god never even tried, until jesus.
I think that while there may be some parallels, the norse mythology which pervades most of the book makes it much more likely that shadow is baldur.
why such restrictive point of views on who Shadow is? He could be embody both Christ and Baldur. There are enough evidences to make a case for either, and maybe both. Just as Easter was a pagaen ritual co-opted by Christianity, the images of gods are quite malleable in the mind of the collective population. People may transform one god to another and combine some others into one. In Gaiman's world of AG, this certainly can happen.
Posts: 3 | Location: Walnut, Ca | Registered: May 31, 2003
On the subject of heroes being born as the son of a god and a mortal woman, particularly a virgin: long long ago in college, I wrote a paper on the topic of "The Celtic Saint as Hero," and was astonished to discover that many of the more fantastic aspects of Jesus' birth show up in the life stories of several Celtic saints and heroes.
Also, the life story of Mithras, who is mentioned in American Gods, has some amazing similarities to that of Jesus.
I was gladdened to see our Roman Catholic God made out to be the main character and thus most important God in this story, however, it is a little discomforting to see Him viewed mereley as a two bit coin magician.
Posts: 2 | Location: Oak Lawn, Il., USA | Registered: July 29, 2003
quote:Originally posted by kath: I was gladdened to see our Roman Catholic God made out to be the main character and thus most important God in this story, however, it is a little discomforting to see Him viewed mereley as a two bit coin magician.
Hmm, looks like you are thinking 'shadow = christ'. Instead, consider a Venn diagram - two circles with an overlapping middle. They share aspects, but they do not equal one another.
My confirmation that the christ figure analogy was intentional on the author's part is that Shadow was 33 when he was tied to the tree. A fine magic number, and definitely part of the christ story as told in this day and age.
Posts: 4 | Location: Austin, TX, USA | Registered: September 06, 2003
But I still feel that his death (and that is the only thing that I could find) is supposed to conjure images of the Crucifixion (sp?). I agree that it would be a rather pointless exercise to try and point to every action, but I think some specifics do exist; as Christ was crucified, the nails pierced his wrists (hands depending on what you're looking at) as the ropes did to Shadow. The spear in the side was a giant sign to me, as believers of the stigmata phenomenon (and many others) agree that the mortal wound to Christ was a spear impaling his side. I think the point in the death is not to signify him as a Christ figure, but as an emalgamation of all religions; he is the son of the Norse god Odin; he takes the role of Christ in his death, and is resurrected by an Egyptian faith, then schooled in spirituality by Native Americans; when the battle comes, Shadow is the end result.. I thought of his character as an evolution of mythology.
Posts: 1 | Location: North Little Rock, AR USA | Registered: September 17, 2003
I just got finished re-reading the book, and I really couldn't find anything to support the theory of Shadow and Jesus sharing anything. If anything, I think of Shadow as Baldur (which is a stretch). The whole hanging from the tree scene was a nod to Odin, and norse mythology. Odin hung from a tree for nine days. Odin was stabbed by a spear during that time. Odin died and came back. Wasn't the whole scene about holding a vigil for Odin anyway? The only reference to Christianity in the whole book, is when Jaquel talks about Jesus hitchhiking in Afganastan or something. I just don't think this book had a whole lot to do with Christianity, I think it was more about the gods that people don't worship anymore, and how they are dealing with it.
"He who controls the spice, controls the universe."
Posts: 4 | Location: Kansas City, Kansas, U.S. | Registered: September 24, 2003
quote:Originally posted by The Finn: If anything, I think of Shadow as Baldur (which is a stretch). The whole hanging from the tree scene was a nod to Odin, and norse mythology. Odin hung from a tree for nine days.
Well, some posters are saying he's Christ (which is incorrect, as the story 'Monarch in the Glenn' explicitly says who he is), and others are saying he's Christ-like. I'm not very knowledgable in mythology, but if you're correct about that norse myth, I'm sure that's what Neil meant to refer to. At the same time, he must have realized many of his readers would see parallels between that part of the book and the cruxifixtion, and if he had wanted, he could have done more to set aside those connections. In short, as with all things ambiguous, it's up to the individual reader to decide how they want to read it
Posts: 13083 | Location: Tucson | Registered: June 19, 2001
Regarding the nature of his sacrifice on the tree: his motive for doing it and the results there of are EXTREMELY important to understanding his nature.
1) more than anything else, he does it to live. He does it for himself.
2) from the sacrifice he gains enlightenment
These are not Christ qualities, these (along with the modus operandi ofcourse) are Odinic. He is emulating his father. In many ways he is also Balder (after all, Loki himself threatens to pierce his eye with a mistletoe). There are some similarities to Christ yes, but those are eerie similarities already present in Norse myth without Gaiman having to add them (such as both Odin and Christ's side being pierced with a spear)
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