right at the beginning of the novel, low key talks to shadow about the gallows:

>>
"When did they last hang a man in this state?" asked Shadow.

"How the hell should I know?" Lyesmith kept his orange-blond hair pretty much shaved. You could see the lines of his skull. "Tell you what, though. This country started going to hell when they stopped hanging folks. No gallows dirt. No gallows deals."

Shadow shrugged. He could see nothing romantic in a death sentence.
>>

can anybody explain to me what he means by 'gallowsd dirt' and 'gallows deals'? i couldn't find those expressions anywhere (dictionaries or the web), but i don't really know what he means by them.

many thanks in advance
weatherwax

I can only guess that it's the criminal trying to talk their way out of the hanging. (Gallows dirt.... info given at last second? Gallows deal ...convincing the hangman not to kill you?)

hi GMZoe,

thanks for your answer! it definitely makes sense.
first i thought it might be a 'real' expression, because it's so short and it sounds good, but then i couldn't find it anywhere ;-)

cheers
weatherwax

I think maybe that "coming to america" mr. Ibis story about that cornish girl (can't remember her name) who was impregnated by the jailer is an example of a "gallows-deal".

"we are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"

'Gallows deal' Is a vernacular expression here, but very old and mostly out of use, for obvious reasons. Means basicaly what GMZoe said.

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'I'm insane. What's his excuse?'

thanks to both of you, too! it's really great to have a message board like this and get such questions answered!
cheers
weatherwax

When I read it, I thought that "gallows dirt" referred to the use of such stuff as an ingredient for magical spells. No?

- Cho

quote:

Originally posted by Chomiji:
When I read it, I thought that "gallows dirt" referred to the use of such stuff as an ingredient for magical spells. No?

- Cho

Quite Correct: Being hung by the neck causes all sorts of unpleasantness, among them the release of waste. The gallows dirt contained not only waste, but often "seed" as well and is mentioned often as an ingredient in folkloric magic.

quote:

Originally posted by Aedh:
Quite Correct: Being hung by the neck causes all sorts of unpleasantness, among them the release of waste. The gallows dirt contained not only waste, but often "seed" as well and is mentioned often as an ingredient in folkloric magic.

It's also used in white Christian magic and is simply dirt taken from the spot where someone died. This dates back to a time when "gallows" referred to any pole or pole-like structure from which a person was hanged, which included the cross of Christ. The area around that cross was held to be deeply holy, to the extent that some gnostics held that the warrior who pierced Christ's side died on the spot, and so dirt from a similar site was though to have some sympathetic magic attached to it.

exactly what kind of 'Christian magic' is thought to be performed using this stuff? do you have any more info on similarly dark Christian magic, including links and detailed spells?

i'm ONLY asking because of my RPG character doing exactly this sort of stuff. no other reason

This book will give you a great deal of background information and some details about particular spells. Christian magic, like most other forms that arose out of the roots of Judaism, is mystical, meaning that as soon as a spell is disseminated in a fashion that everyone understands, it ceases to function. Once revealed, mystery becomes knowledge and loses its magic, quite literally. As such, I've no useful links for you.

That's a good starting text, though.

ahhh... come to think of it, our Storyteller rattled off the Greek word for that. it sounded like 'theosophy', but it wasn't... theonomy?

if its Christian mysticism thats close to Kabbalah, i can't really use it (though i love Kabbalah). but stuff like the grave dirt is perfect. last game i made a cross out of dead men's knuckles as a focus for a voodoo type curse. that sort of creepinesss

eh... i'll just make it up for the game... but i want to do more research on this now. thanks

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