Does anyone know? Or have an idea? Or know if it is going to be told later?

... and that's me ....
~breathe~

There was a lot of talk about this on another thread, maybe "Can the Sandman Kill Anyone?" Something of that nature that went off-topic.

Relax, you fiends! I'm only joking.

I think it's the "just a thing about Sandman" topic further down the page. (Too lazy to check on it.)

Anyway, no, not much is known about the death of Despair. maybe more will be revealed in Endless Nights. . .

My personal theory is that Desire had something to do with it. ^_^

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The Will to Help and The Will to Use is what separates good people from bad. I think.

If you read The Wake, particularly the part where Daniel confronts Lyta Hall, he says:

[ruffles through Volume 10 to quote verbatim]

The person who was responsible for the death of the first Despair will take the rest of eternity to die. Only then will his pain cease... And he had better cause for what he did than you.

Apparently, the first Despair was murdered by someone who obviously had a valid reason for killing her. However, it is also obvious that you just don't go killing members of that particular family without any possible repercussions. ("...take the rest of eternity to die" - gawd, that's scary!)

If you read Heart of a Star from The Sandman: Endless Nights, you may find one possible suspect: Rao, the sun of the solar system to which the doomed planet Krypton belonged. Not to spoil it for you, but a conversation between the vividly tattooed Despair I and Rao about the eventual destruction of Krypton would probably give that particular red giant a motive for killing her.

At least, that's my opinion, anyway...

I'd like to think that the second Despair killed the first one. She could have been a hero who killed Despair to bring hope to everyone in her world, but then found that hope became meaningless without the possibility of its loss; she could then have taken on the role of Despair in order to bring back hope. It would have been a poetic punishment for her hubris and crime, and, being Endless and desperate, she would "take the rest of eternity to die."

The only thing wrong with this theory is the gender of the pronouns in what Daniel says:

"Only then will his pain cease... And he had better cause for what he did than you."

Oh well.

Of course, I'll have to agree with phool on the possibility that Desire might have been involved. Desire is, after all, Despair's twin - and goodness only knows what manner of sibling rivalry lies between that particular odd couple.

Wait, I never suggested that Desire might have been involved! I'm being misunderstood! I have made very little comment on this topic, except to point it out when someone says something that goes against the actual stuff written by Neil. These all make sense, except that we know that Despair I was killed by someone who is at least identifiable as male.

Relax, you fiends! I'm only joking.

I have no trouble believing that the person who killed the first Despair did so to either end their own despair or someone they cared about.
Whatever happened, this story is probably in the "to be told one day maybe" file with "How Delight Became Delirium".

Neil probably just wants everyone to think about it and make up their own story as far as the details are concerned, sort of like Chow Yun Fat and Shu Lien'sbackstory in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Relax, you fiends! I'm only joking.

Crouching tiger hidden dragon did have a back story!! The movie only covered one of the books from which it was taken.

Sorry I can't add anything to the Despair theories. I much prefer to wait for Neil's explanation (which I'm sure is in the offing at some point). His explanation will undoubtedly be a thousand times better than anything I could come up with

By coincidence, I went to Neil's signing in NY and asked him if he'll ever write the story of how the first Despair died.

He answered (and I'm paraphrasing here), that it's a story he'd like to get around to writing. He feels like the two Despairs are very different, and that the first one was more comfortable with the idea of being Despair than the second one.

I personally think killing despair wouldn't just make hope meaningless, but would also create a really creepy world. Imagine your ex-lover makes it clear she no longer loves you, but you literally can't stop trying to get her back.

Crouching tiger came from BOOKS? I am an ignorant peon, and can only beg your forgiveness. That makes a lot of sense, though. It did seem as if there was a lot of story that would really help the movie that wasn't there.

Relax, you fiends! I'm only joking.

@phool

Haha! You're forgiven. From what I remember (I forget some of the names) mu bai finds the girl, impresses and is impressed by her martial art skills and asks her father for her hand. Unfortunately she is promised to another. Before she can marry her fiance tho, he is killed. Therefore she can never remarry (or something) and focusses her life on her martial arts and mu bai does the same.

Not very romantic when written as a synopsis...

Perhaps it was Loki. He will suffer under the earth until the end of time, so maybe killing the first despair is one of his many, many crimes.

The sky was made of peaches...

Good thought, Ozma. Maybe. He did do a lot of bad stuff. And his suffering will only end come ragnarok. Clever. SOMEone should ask NEIL!

Relax, you fiends! I'm only joking.

Darkseid.

Like, badass, Pre-Crisis, Jack Kirby written, "tiger force at the heart of all things" Darkseid.

I dunno why he'd do it...probably to prove a point... something about him being the only one who causes despair and not needing and Endless.

'Course, i don't see him in eternal torment, but I could be wrong. I dunno. Just felt like being really random... and Darkseid is really cool.

Excelsior!

~~~~~~~~~



Roy Orbison singing for the lonely
Hey thats me and I want you only
Don't turn me home again
I just can't face myself alone again
Bruce Springsteen, "Thunder Road"

"To fall in love is to create a religion with a fallible God"-- Jorge Luis Borges

http://lon.blogspot.com Its a slightly less eloquent me

I doubt the Loki theory. I don't think there's any clues to the time whent he first Despair died, apart from one line in the Wake: "It's been several hundred thousand years since anyone thought of her but me".

Norse mythology is about 15-20 000 years old. ^_^

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The Will to Help and The Will to Use is what separates good people from bad. I think.

Yes, but this is the DCU. Things are different.

I have no idea how they're differnt in regards to Norse myth... they didn't get too into it, i think, for fear of stepping on Marvel's toes. Still, you've got a point... if Neil is going mythologically, which i think he is, that rules out Loki.

I'm thinking since Neil is so into obcurse comic chars (Brother Power the Geek? Prez Rickard????), it'lll be someone in that vein. It also narrows down the list of suspects to, oh, a few thousand.

Anyway, i like my Darkseid theory... Darkseid or one of the other New Gods. Maybe something to do with the Anti-Life Equation.

Excelsior!

~~~~~~~~~



Roy Orbison singing for the lonely
Hey thats me and I want you only
Don't turn me home again
I just can't face myself alone again
Bruce Springsteen, "Thunder Road"

"To fall in love is to create a religion with a fallible God"-- Jorge Luis Borges

http://lon.blogspot.com Its a slightly less eloquent me

Maybe it was an obscure MARVEL character, and the industry is fucking with us! Holy crap! I've just thought of a great idea for a novel!

Relax, you fiends! I'm only joking.
http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=phool2056

Okay, I was thinking about something else at the time to do with Sandman which in turn led me to this theory:

Despair was killed in order to change.
In Endless nights it seems the first Despair was comfortable in her role as 'Despair'. Her second incarnation is much more the figure we would associate with 'Despair'.

Dream died because he could not change. Maybe Despair died because she was not able to fulfill her role as well in her first incarnation? Her killer may be insignificant in the same way that Lyta Hall was in Dreams demise. Or maybe someone worshipped Despair only to find that she did not fulfill their concepts of 'Despair'.


My original thought was how the first incarnations of the Endless were the opposite of their functions. I think I'm wrong on that though. My thoughts went on:

Morpheus: Dreams are fluid but Morpheus wasn't so he died. In Daniel the hints are that he accepts that his previous incarnation could not change.

Despair: In her first incarnation she seems perfectly happy in her role. In her second she truly is despair

Desire: I always equate this in some way to love, and yet I see Desire as the coldest of the Endless

Death: The coolest goth chick I know!

Destruction: Unhappy in his role, he gives it up to create! (Poetry, food, painting, ect.)

Destiny: My theories collapse here, but I do think that Destiny does seem to live in the now rather than the future.

Delirium: Even as Delight she seems confused (Endless nights). Maybe she just didn't fulfill my concepts of delight!