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The Kindly Ones Theory
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That is a good theory since Morpheus talked to everyone about not coming back and he did see and name Daniel before going back to Hell.
 
Posts: 1834 | Registered: July 11, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Baldur_Moon:
It's possible that Daniel was intended to take over for Dream in the event of his death by Lucifer. That's when he told Lyta about taking him right? Just before leaving for Hell? Dream probably had arrangements for Daniel to become his automatic replacement.



I think Morpheus' trip to Hell was prior to the whole Doll's House bit. He went to Lucifer's realm to get his helmet back, right? That was even before the fight with Doctor Dee.

As for the killing of his son, yes, I would agree that's a weak point on my theory. But I insist that Morpheus was way too incisive about taking Daniel in the future. And I don't see how his arrengement with Loki could be about anything but the kidnapping of the child - althought the not-much-mencioned Puck appearance on that occasion is indeed intriguing. Anyway, I keep thinking Orpheu's death only rushed Dream's plan, but didn't start them; I also think that Dream was aware of the need to change before his chat with Destruction. His concern about that female driver whose name I can't remember in "Brief lives" or his decision to free Nada from Hell show the efforts he was making to ultimately be other than himself.

And I also doubt we'll ever get to a consensual theory - and I rather like it. I think one of the qualities of truly great works of art is the doubt it puts on our minds, the many ways it allows us to see itself. And "Sandman" is a hell of a truly great work of art. Actually, I do believe we're all right about this - it's just I'm righter than you are. Just kidding. "Righter" isn't a word, is it? I'm drowsy. Good night.
Lucas
 
Posts: 10 | Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil | Registered: June 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I said I'm drowsy, didn't I? Sorry about the two-trips-to-Hell mix up. But Dream first talked about taking Daniel by the first time they met, when Rose Walker's brother's head exploded on his uncle's basement. Before Dream even dreamed (sorry, couldn't resist it) on going back to Hell.
 
Posts: 10 | Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil | Registered: June 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Lucas Murtinho:
I think Morpheus' trip to Hell was prior to the whole Doll's House bit. He went to Lucifer's realm to get his helmet back, right? That was even before the fight with Doctor Dee.



Sorry, we should have been clearer about what we were saying. We are talking about Morpheus's SECOND trip to Hell to try and free Nada.
 
Posts: 1834 | Registered: July 11, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I just think that Morpheus was curious about Daniel. He said that Daniel was a rare case for the Dreaming. It would only be natural for Morpheus to study the child. Maybe he thought he might take Daniel "just in case" something might happen to him.
 
Posts: 1834 | Registered: July 11, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<cut'npaste>
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From http://home.bip.net/rivieran/literature/suspects.html

"Oberon
AKA: Auberon, King of the Fay

Motive: Infidelity

Who better to kill a King than a King? In my mind, so many factors imply or implicate Oberon that it might be more plainly illustrated if we take each element at a time:

Did he have the Means to engineer killing Dream? -- Yes. Oberon is King of the Fay, a sly, powerful, and ingenuitve race to begin with. Also, they are extremely long-lived, so millennia of political connections could easily be made by a figure in authority. Could he have reached into the mortal world on Earth and put Eric and Carla into play as distractions for Lyta ? Surely. Could he have found out about Orpheus' death? Easily. Could he have recalled Nuala and cause her to inadvertently call Dream out of his kingdom? Of course, he is her King, after all. And, he is also King and master to another -- Puck . In fact, Oberon may be one of the only people whom Puck obeys (as seen in "A Midsummer Night's Dream"). If Loki was looking for the opportunity to strike at Dream, Oberon could have easily discovered that desire and paired the two to steal Daniel. In fact, given their long histories, perhaps there is another, unspoken debt that Loki was chafing under which serving Oberon releases him from. Regardless, while that might be speculation, it is no great feat to assume that Oberon both had knowledge of the Kindly Ones and the facilities to engineer Death's elimination if he wished.

Did he have Reason to kill Dream? -- Yes. If the prior write-up for Titania doesn't say it plainly enough, I will reiterate: In all likelihood, Titania and Dream had an affair. In fact, The Sandman Companion is kind enough to note that Oberon is drawn with horns, the sign of a cuckold. Again, this is not an unthinkable event; if Shakespeare's performance is at all accurate, the King and Queen have always had a less-than-strictly-monogamous, uneven relationship. Outside of any political gains or losses that Oberon would receive with the Dream King's death, this most personal and long-held injury seems reason enough for exacting vengeance.

Did he have the Opportunity to engineer killing Dream? -- Yes, to a bizarre degree. Oberon seems to make only one real appearance in the Sandman series -- in "A Midsummer Night's Dream." Despite the number of times the series deals with the faerie, with Cluracan, with Nuala, with the Queen Titania, and with Puck, Oberon is little seen. To be fair, this can be interpreted that Oberon is a very minor character, not worth consideration on this list of suspects. But, alternatively, that could make him all the more suspicious. The most damning absence would seem to be his presence in The Wake. Put simply, he does not attend Dream's funeral. With major and minor friends, enemies, allies, and associates all there (except Destruction , perhaps for good reason), it seems exceptionally odd that this regal ambassador of the fair folk would not come to honor Dream's memory...unless he caused his death.

If Morpheus' death was intentional and executed by a mastermind behind-the-scenes, Oberon seems, in my mind, to be the best candidate on paper. There are only three circumstances that could exonerate him, two of which would have to come from the mouth of creator Neil Gaiman himself. First, it is possible that the simplest answer, while not the best, is still correct and that it was Desire , as awkward an answer as that may be. Second, perhaps Oberon is too minor a character in Gaiman's world for him to even be thought "behind-the-scenes;" perhaps he's just gone and we, as the audience, were never intended to take his sole appearance all that seriously. Only one other explanation holds if one wishes to declare Oberon innocent. And, interestingly enough, it lies with an equally absent character from the series who may have inadvertently caused the chain of events leading to Morpheus' death....his own brother ."


then it goes on to give reasons and motives for destruction being at least indirectly responsible for dream's death. But this post is already at a horribly long length so i'll save you even more undue scrolling and not paste it here. But the site is an interesting read.
 
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It is a possible theory, even though in the Dreaming comic book Nuala had an affair with Auberon. This would mean that Auberon wasn't exactly faithful either. But in Shakespeare's play, didn't Oberon (Auberon) put Titania to sleep and have her go with Bottom?

Destruction was indirectly related in Morpheus's death because he left. If Destruction had never left his realm, the Endless would have u
 
Posts: 1834 | Registered: July 11, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I didn't mean to imply that one person did it, i'm along with you in the combination of a lot of varied events theory.
It was too epic of a work for just one neat little explanation. Just like life there is often more then one answer to any major event and nothing is clear cut.
I just thought it was an interesting theory that no one else seems to have mentioned.
Also the site explained Destructions indirect involvement as being that possibly just being near him brings about destruction, or at least major change.
He states that although he had nothing but the best intentions, his actions of leading orpheus into death's realm put orpheus in his little mess. He was there when Delerium had her change.
Also he thinks that that may have been the reason he left his realm, and set up the traps for people not to find him.
Its explained much better on the site I posted, and I know this isn't the end all be all explanation, but i just thought they were interesting ideas that i never really considered before.
take them as you will.

p.s. i used to be cutn'paste.
 
Posts: 132 | Location: new matamoras, ohio | Registered: August 27, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This may sound redundant, but I have realized why Neil has made all the details in Morpheus's death a mystery. If he did tell who killed Morpheus then it would take away from the main point, that Morpheus was ultimately responsible for his own demise. If the reader KNEW who killed Morpheus, then everyone would focus on the murderor and not fully realize that Morpheus ultimatley killed himself.
 
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okya, we may now be going round in circles here, but what yo uhave to consider here is that this is *not* a whodunnit. The narrative sweep of things point irresistably to the elaborate suicide theory. To be honest, if anyone else was the brains behind it, The Sandman doesn't work.

All these guys have the motive and the opportunity, and many of them contribute. But if you look for actions, you are looking in the wrong place. Neil is into the mechanics of story - not whodunnnits

But if you want the clearest evidence of all - what are the very final stories of the Sandman

1) the desert (soft places 2) - the point of this one is setting people free, *NO MATTER HOW IT IS DONE*

2) Hob at the Ren-fest - the theme being the choice to die.

3) the Tempest - about a King who breaks his staff and leaves his kingdom (and before anyone points it out, yes, I know it is nominally about Destruction, and that Dream says he won't - but the whole of the Sandman arc is about how he did! And why put it as the final story, in any case?


I feel so sure I'm right here - I wrote my thesis on the Sandman, after all, I feel I am in a position to talk with some authority.

Anyone who wants more, I have plenty!

Cheers
Murphy
 
Posts: 8147 | Location: London, England | Registered: July 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<Ulysses04>
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Murphy, you are correct 100 percent. It boils down to the fact that no one--except perhaps The Creator him/herself--could successfully put a hit out on Morpheus. He wove his own story: beginning, middle, and end.
 
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Thanks for clarifying my point, Murphy.
 
Posts: 1834 | Registered: July 11, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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yes, definitely, that IS the point of the story, morpheus wrote his whole story, just as we all do, and are all responsible for our actions.

definitely. quite right.

(man, this thing is post 95 or something. i had no idea i would open up this big a can of worms.)

for the record, I appreciate the Auberon theory, but find it very implausible. I can't see one hint in the Kindly Ones that way. forgive me, but it sounds like someone trying to be eccentric in hopes of being seen as a more incisive fan than everyone else. did you see the poll on that site? morpheus is the most popular culprit.
 
Posts: 35 | Registered: July 11, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Morpheus could have went into hiding like Nuala said. Morpheus instead faced the Kindly Ones. This is additional proof (to the already infallible conclusion) that Morpheus was responsible for his death.
 
Posts: 1834 | Registered: July 11, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OK, I'm only presenting this version of the Puck\Loki theory because I'm new and didn't see it when I scrolled through the first part of the thread, forgive me if someone has already said this, BUT:

My theory is that yes, Loki and Puck were working for Morpheus, but not KNOWINGLY. There was no conversation off-page where Morpheus "hired" them. Morpheus manipulated events up to that point so that Loki would think he was acting out of free will. The boon Morpheus decided Loki owed him WAS to kill him (not to kidnap Daniel). Morpheus knew that the Furies were one of the only possible ways to kill him (as he spilled his Son's blood), and knew that Loki would come to this conclusion as well and set events in motion. Morpheus told Loki he owed him a boon BECAUSE he knew it would infuriate him and make him want to find a way to kill him, which is what Morpheus wanted. In Loki's mind, he was assassinating Morpheus to defy him and erase his debt to him, not knowing that killing him WAS the debt that Morpheus spoke of. (Yes, I think he was thinking about his imminent death and replacement as early as Seasons of Mist.) His siblings had been changing for some time as the universe had, but he had always rigidly clung to the old traditions and ways of the Endless. Morpheus knew that he needed to change with the times, that his rules and traditions had caused pain to all those around him despite his justifications of them, but he couldn't. It wasn't in his nature, someone new needed to fill his shoes and be the change.

ANYWAYS, Loki enlisted Puck, a fellow agent of chaos and powerful ally, to help purely out of his own ingenuity. I also have a theory as to why Loki would resort to asking Puck, or anyone, for help (being the arrogant, misanthropic deity he is). Basically he just wanted a companion to hang out with after being imprisoned underground with his silent wife and silent snake for countless millennia, and of course he would pick someone similar to himself, Loki was also a vain god as I recall. This of course in addition to him probably realizing taking down the Dream-King would be a risky endeavor to take on all by himself. Maybe he planned to use Puck as a fall-guy somehow? I don't know. That's the way I see it, the only thing my theory does not explain is why Loki and Puck decided to burn Daniel's mortality away in the fire. Maybe they simply thought he was a normal human, and killing him with fire was just a means to their ends, not knowing of his origins in the Dreaming? Thoughts, anyone? AM I RIGHT, NEIL?????


-Never worry about what other people think of you, because no one ever thinks of you. - Dr. Oswald Heist in Saga
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: October 09, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Wait, also, if that's the case, how did Loki know that Hippolyta hated Dream so much that she would invoke the Furies if her son was stolen? Or why didn't he just ask the Furies to do it himself if he had knowledge of Orpheus' death? Was it something only a woman, or a mother, or a mortal could do? I don't recall that being one of the rules laid out, but who knows. Damn, I've gone and confused myself again.


-Never worry about what other people think of you, because no one ever thinks of you. - Dr. Oswald Heist in Saga
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: October 09, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Also, why did leaving the Dreaming for a moment make Morpheus vulnerable to the Furies, where he wasnt before? Arrrrrgh...Every time I re-read the series I find new questions that stay floating around in my head all day.


-Never worry about what other people think of you, because no one ever thinks of you. - Dr. Oswald Heist in Saga
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: October 09, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hey, I'm happy to see someone else is posting over a decade after everyone else lol. I agree with nearly everyone here in the regard that, although nearly every character played a role in Dream's death, it was ultimately an elaborate suicide. Everyone has also done a terrific job of explaining most people's involvement (such as Lucifer and Loki), but I'd like to expand on Dream's manipulation of the fairies, as I think he (at least near-)consciously manipulated them all.

For Puck, who invited Faerie to rejoin the Waking World for a play, allowing Puck to escape to his mischief? Dream.

As for Nuala and the Nemesis, this was Dream as well. When Cluracan visited the castle, he was guided off the main path to meet his nemesis, presumably by Dream (as Dream and the Dreaming are basically one and the same, as Dream himself explains). The Nemesis ends up being the one that coerces Nuala to draw Dream out from his realm, thus cementing his vulnerability.

Every instance leading to Dream's demise can be traced back to his direct doing, as far as I can discern.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: May 03, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I had an idea while reading through the thread. The whole reason that Morpheus visited Orpheus in the first place was because he was the only oracle who could tell him about the Endless. Now I'm not quite sure as to the limits of an oracles knowledge but it's possible that while he spoke to his son Orpheus informed him as to the circumstances of his death.
This would explain all the plot holes and reasons as to why Morpheus did what he did:he already knew the events leading up to his death and was just going through the motions. It would also explain other things like why NG showed us so little of their interactions and conversation before Orpheus's death.
Even if Orpheus didn't tell him everything, if he could find out where Destruction was, he could easily have found out about any plot by Desire or Lucifer to kill Morpheus. Basically a lot of problems people have faced with Morpheus's suicide can be solved by the inclusion of knowledge from Orpheus.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: August 10, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just joined so this post is a little late, but the story of Morpheus is how he either removes himself or is removed more and more by all individual entities making decisions that he is unable to counter for various reasons. And in both Loki's and Puck's case, it makes little difference whether or not they had been asked to do so or not since their very nature is to be violent, manipulative and meddling, while their characters leave no doubt that they will not take orders or stick to agreements. It could just as easily be argued that Loki wouldn't honor any boons or agreements, and took advantage of the can of worms Lyta Hall had already opened? Since that too would be just the kind of thing they would do?
 
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