I am doing a research paper on raven mythology,as compared to scientific data and literature. Any thoughts/guidance on Neil's symbolism with Matthew? Or Matthews origins?
Thanks,
Shayne

interesting...

I wish I had more to contribute but I dont know mmuchh about Ravens except Noah, Odin and perhaps the greek carion/death deal and even there i am not well versed.

I guess I'd segue into what do we know about the earlier ravens? do we even know how many?

there were loads, and some chose to be ravens instead of dying, at least Matthew and the other one, and that in some sense they are Eve's and in some sense are Dreams messengers.

Hrm.... i know that Matthew specfically comes from Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing. He was married to the woman Swamp Thing loved and became an alchoholic, got killed in a car crash, and was resurrected by Dream as a raven (aka, one of the Swamp Thing writers asked Neil to do that and he agreed). I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, as i don't have Moore's Swamp Thing stuff yet.... but there are people here who can fill you in.

Excelsior!

~~~~~~~~~

One day we will die and our ashes will fly from the aeroplane over the sea
Until then we are young let us lay in the sun and count every beautiful thing we can see-- Neutral Milk Hotel

http://lon.blogspot.com Its a slightly less eloquent me

Swamp Thing #84

Reprinted in...?

(not that it matters for me, since i'll just get all the Moore trades when i have the cash, but i thought our friend might like to know)

Excelsior!

~~~~~~~~~

One day we will die and our ashes will fly from the aeroplane over the sea
Until then we are young let us lay in the sun and count every beautiful thing we can see-- Neutral Milk Hotel

http://lon.blogspot.com Its a slightly less eloquent me

#84 is in Rick Veitch's run, which is uncollected.

One thing that you may have noticed already that Neil has one character talk about in the story is that the ravens belong equally to both sexes. They're as much Eve's as Morpheus,' as much Noah's as Noah's wife's.

Relax, you fiends! I'm only joking.
http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=phool2056

I hate to mention this, but Matthew didn't come from either the Alan Moore or the Rick Veitch Swamp Thing...sure he appeared in it, but he was actually originally from the original Swamp Thing series, back in the early and mid '70s. I think his first appearance is actually in Swamp Thing # 1, from 1972, I believe.

He only became Matthew the Raven later, after he died in Swamp Thing # 84.

wasn't there an other raven former woman in the Moore run of swamp thing?

*very confused spoilers*

I remember when constantine and swampie go against the brujera and all costantine's friends get killed. one of his friends betrays them and give them to the brujera and than the brujeria tranforms her in a bird, I don't recall if a raven or something else. She was the veihcle for something that woould have doomed the entire world, I remember something in her beak, a seed or a stone, I'm not sure, and she was suppose to take it somewhere and that's what would have doomed the world. but than she got killed, and I don't remember how. I remeber just pieces of it . and right now all my comic are packed, I'll let you know when I'll depack!
I remember also thinking while reading it that she would have become Mattew since I knew it Mettew was a human in the Swamp thing serie but I didn't remember his name, I was wrong of course!!

*end of very confused spoiler*

I think he/she wants more litterary hints but I haven't any right now ...

mm wait I found something in the ecyclopedia mithyca about Coronis that apparently means crow raven but has nothing to do with mattew coronis and here the entire search on 'raven' at the encyclopedia mithyca ravens and here for crow I dubt this will help but at least I tried!!

Don’t drink soap! Dilute! Dilute! OK!

Ravens are related to crows and magpies and blue jays.

Crows and magpies have a lot of counting poems associated with them (thus, the group Counting Crows {wicked grin}), which you can find prettily easily with a google search.

There's a myth I used in a story (unpublished) about how ravens were able to speak until one ate a corpse's eyeball, which had been forbidden (no, I don't remember who forbade it).

- John Urbancik
author of Sins of Blood and Stone

and the multimedia SOUND & VISION
www.darkfluidity.com

Hey! Thanks to everyone who responded to my query. My paper is done, and I think it turned out OK... I have never posted to one of these before, aand it was a nice surprise to see that people actually cared about my curiosity.Oh yeah, if anyone comes up with more on the raven's ability to speak/eating eyeballs, feel free to post it!
Thanks again,
Shayne

I was writing a story that included a description of Baghdad rather similar to that Neil gave in Ramadan. It was a place of beauty, mystery, magic and all that great stuff.

The story was about two travelling companions, one a young man eager to join the army of the sultan, the other an old stranger with years of experience in the way of war, who was coming to Baghdad to work as a beggar, giving up a successful career on the front lines of a war. The young man asks the old man why he left such a lucrative post, and the only line that worked for the cryptic old man was, "Baghdad is a city without crows."

__________
AJGraeme
First Heretic of the Cheese Llama Cult
Devotee of the Omniscient Tortilla
"You have reached Ritual Sacrifices. For Goats, please press 1, or say 'goats.'"

Dweller:
That's an excellent line ("Baghdad is a city without crows"). Wish I'd thought of it. {wicked grin} Does it come from anywhere else, or is it totally yours?

There's a LIFE special out right now, a thick book on Seven Wonders of the World, and in the Natural Wonders there's a section on cordids (sp), the family of birds which includes ravens, crows, magpies, and blue jays, and has some excellent and interesting information.

- John Urbancik
author of Sins of Blood and Stone

just out: The Rise and Fall of Babylon
www.darkfluidity.com