we may have deadlines, but we often treat them much the same way Douglas Adams did

well, yeah... read and discuss is the main idea of a book club rather than a book thread.

There are a number of ways any discussion can go, i guess. I haven't been involved in the WE ones before, so i can't speak for that, and i have got significantly stupider in the past few years, but i've done book discussion before!

(Incidentally, why the general harumphing about Count Zero being his weakest work? I seem to remember it being rather good)

Btw. can I join in at the Neuromancer book club thing?

Or would that be a bit too obvious?

open to everyone, fella. As long as you aren't a sub programmed AI with an ulterior motive.

quote:

Originally posted by Murphy:
(Incidentally, why the general harumphing about Count Zero being his weakest work? I seem to remember it being rather good)

I like it.

i think you should go back to basics on your name to make that clear!

quote:

Originally posted by Murphy:
(Incidentally, why the general harumphing about Count Zero being his weakest work? I seem to remember it being rather good)

what harrumphing?? point them out!

gibson describes count zero as his first novel, with neuromancer being a novel shaped thing he was never entirely satisfied with.

I enjoyed Count Zero, although it obviously felt less original than Neuromancer. Mona Lisa Overdrive, though... that one I positively hated. I thought the writing was bad and the characterisation cheap. Can't remember a thing about it now, though.

i enjoyed mona lisa overdrive (and thats not the bias speaking), but i also read the sprawl books in the wrong order, so it was first gibson i read.

the whole trilogy does feel a little dated and a shadow of his current work though.

MLO was my favourite of the three.
Don't know why, I hardly understood the plot, but I really enjoyed it.

Now, however, PR is my favourite.

started re-reading neuromancer last night. think this will be my 4th read?

I've been trying to read it. honest I have.

I feel like I have to struggle to finish a page. I adore his writing, his descriptions...ah... they assault my brain and fling my imagination into some strangely surreal plane - I feel like I'm drifting on dark clouds and sinking in a soft fluff of words (which makes me very happy, I like words) but... the characters don't move me. I don't feel anything towards them. (I'm also drawing on my recent-ish reading of Pattern Recognition) I can live with confusion as to where the plot is taking me, as in PR, but Neuromancer ... I feel like I'm dog-paddling in the kiddie pool of confusion. And so far the characters are not grabbing me. I don't love them, I don't hate them, I don't agree/disagree. I guess I'm just not connecting very well.

I'll certainly give it another bash, I'm not giving up so easily!

well, this is the point of the book club! if you have questions and so on... have away. I'm sure there are neuromexperts who can help!

i'm in the home stretch of this read. i guess i also got what maeve got, trying to work out what i made of case and molly. lets face it, at the start, case is a shit, he consciously screwed over linda. from there he is a loser given a second chance. what does molly see in him? why does she get as close as she does? i guess he reminds her of johnny, but is also more on her level than armitage.

i think maybe the panther moderns is the turning point. where the plot takes on a momentum, where i start to get caught up in the ideas. we had a conversation over dinner on friday - the difference between short stories, and part of it was to do with how characters can be less important than ideas. and i think that extends to SF novels as well sometimes, i often remember the idea, the big and mad and flashy, more than i do the person who went through it. its the ideas that get me excited in this kind of fiction.

just typing out loud.

Bump.

hmmm...

*contemplates joining*

are you all done or what?

it seems to have petered out, as murphy was concerned it might when we discussed it in london.

though feel free to give it a nudge.

quote:

Originally posted by Maeve:
but... the characters don't move me. I don't feel anything towards them. - - - And so far the characters are not grabbing me. I don't love them, I don't hate them, I don't agree/disagree. I guess I'm just not connecting very well.

I've enjoyed all Gibson novels I've read so far (and reading Spook Country at the moment), but this is exactly how I've felt about them too. The books are intellectually fascinating, but just not that immersive psychologically. Mostly because the characters tend to remain a bit... distant.

I admit it's been a while since I've read anything else by him, but my impression is that Gibson's characters often are rather detached. Loners, outsiders, people living inside their head, kind of self-sufficient - maybe this affects the way the reader relates to them, too? Their thought processes are fascinating to read, but somehow, I just don't care. Take Spook Country for example: I'm very curious to see where the story goes, but I don't feel the kind of curiosity and attachment towards the characters that I have with some other books, when I feel like I get to know the characters, sympathize with them or hate them - in short, to relate to them emotionally. Which makes for easy and compelling reading.

Gibson's not easy in that way. He's clever and very concise. The novels have a clinical feel to them, in stead of the kind of organic, messy literature I usually prefer. I have to excercise my willpower to keep returning to the book. But it's rewarding in other ways.

For Neuromancer, i think the comment about it being like a short story was very perceptive. It moves at that sort of pace. Re-reading it i definitely felt breathless, not just because of the amazing kinetic stylistic prose, but also the pace-rush.

The characters in it are definitely a bit cutout, and i'm not sure what the two leads see in each other.

so what do yo ulot think are the standout set pieces?

As far as Molly and Case are concerned, I think they fit the film noir/hardboiled template fairly well in that they're both damaged romantics who project a lot of what they want to see into the other. They see each other as akin in some ways ("You're like me! You'll understand me!" Case more so than Molly, perhaps...), but believe that the other may just be the one to complement and thereby heal them.