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Goofy Beast
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Picture of Thirith & His Enormous Tibia
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Has anyone here read this comic by Chris Ware? I just finished it... The book pushed many of the same buttons as the movie About Schmidt, and I thought the visual style was fascinating, with the characters being fairly minimal but some of the backgrounds rich in detail. Somehow Ware succeeded for me in making Jimmy not just another pathetic, sad git but someone who could evoke sympathy. I'd love to hear what others thought, though.


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We scraped along like rats, but now we will soar like eagles… eagles on pogo sticks!
 
Posts: 9704 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: September 05, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Yahr, fear the power of the elf-man!
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Picture of Lan Martak
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*bump*

I just started it.

It is interesting but is is depressing.

I may have to shelve it and pick it up here and there.
I will see.


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my cup runs over but I am so blind I just complain as it spills around me
 
Posts: 13673 | Location: The Cenotaph road and Oh-Hi-Oh | Registered: October 25, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Goofy Beast
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Definitely looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts on it. (Personally, I thought that the sheer technical craft made the depressing stuff more bearable.)


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We scraped along like rats, but now we will soar like eagles… eagles on pogo sticks!
 
Posts: 9704 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: September 05, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Great wyrm of Toronto
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I've read it.

I really like the layers of style involved -- especially with regards to imagined scenes, flashbacks, and dreams. There was a lot of complexity and detail behind the minimalist and primary coloured surface and just so starkly ... lonely.

And yeah, I think the craft did help with the subject matter a lot Thirith. Without that, well, I don't know if I would have finished it. I also Didn't read all the backs of the stickers part though -- the ones with all the landmarks and their histories, and some of the diagrams were ... very confusing to me. Perhaps sometimes the drawings could get a little too complicated if that makes any sense.

But I feel richer for having read it.

Actually: I wrote a very rough impression of how I found the book. It's been so long since I have read it, but if you're interested I can PM it to you. Smile


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Posts: 5216 | Location: Canada | Registered: July 11, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Goofy Beast
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I'd definitely be interested, Mythos. Is there any reason why you wouldn't want to post it here, though? Seems like the ideal place. Smile

I agree that some of the layouting becomes confusing, although I thought that this was fairly effective in the case of Jimmy Corrigan. It's confusing because its structure is complex and because of the many layers of meaning, not because Chris Ware is a bad writer, if that makes any sense. Smile

In terms of mood it reminded me of About Schmidt, a film that I found quite devastating when I saw it, although I can't say how much of that was because Schmidt reminded me so much of my dad.


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We scraped along like rats, but now we will soar like eagles… eagles on pogo sticks!
 
Posts: 9704 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: September 05, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Great wyrm of Toronto
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Ok, Thirith. And sure. Here is my entry on Jimmy Corrigan:

quote:
I thought of this comic as what would happen if James Joyce had come forward in time and utilized the comics medium. As it was, at least two of the reviews in the book itself compared it to Ulysses, a tome that I have not read as of yet (and may never do for the rest of my days, ).

This was the hardest, most difficult comic I've ever read. So what the hell can I tell you about it? Well, apart from the fact that I read it from one of Neil's reviews, and the fact that I had to read another similar from Chris Ware, there is a great use of "meta-narrative" -- or meta-writing. Ware's story comments on itself, and even parodies itself, and its form from time to time. And the layout is an example of what, I suppose you could venture to call, "advanced comics grammar." Panels are all over the place, and sometimes they have a very clear order, or an arrow pointing to it a successive panel. I think the order matches an overall tone or mood to the entire piece of displacement and uncertainty -- you are hardly ever grounded and when you are, for a few succession of panels they are flat with very little overt action.

Rather, it's the little actions, the movements of birds, or awkward pauses in conversation, that stand out the most. There are other techniques -- where in a fit of self-alienation the protagonist views himself as a robot, as well as the use of dream symbolism intermixed with, or paralleled with actual images from the past (such as Jimmy Corrigan's dreams of a small horse and his grandfather's remembrances of his time growing up and the awkward metal horse he made), and even faded whitened "ghosts of panels" that mirror their more substantial predecessors -- symbolizing a character's memory and flashback in a new situation.

Just to warn you, don't read on beyond this point unless you want to get spoilers, although you could probably find them on reviews on Amazon and whatnot. Just so you are warned.

As for Jimmy Corrigan himself -- well, the more recent of the two men that the narrative focusses on first (much like in Flaubert's Madame Bovary there were three Mme. Bovarys -- Charles' mother, first wife and then Emma), I have to say that I really felt sorry for him. Everyone just treated him like crap -- from his mother's psychic vampirism, to his estranged father's lack of consideration, and really everyone else around him. Hell, the only person he actually seems to open up to is a foster sister he never knew and even she pushes him away when he tries to show closeness at a critical time.

Jimmy Corrigan is a shy, awkward, introverted man who barely had a father, had to deal with his mother's emotional instability, and is really the loneliest guy I can ever imagine. He does get some some shows of emotion. Even his 96 year old grandfather, a man he never knew until recently, who never had a mother himself and was abandoned by his father at the World's Fair told him that he was, "A good kid."

And he really, in my opinion, was a good person -- but someone too passive and always trying to behave to really enjoy his life. He just gets used or ignored, and as the story progresses you realize this trend has been going on for a long time, even beyond his own generation in this fractured family.

There is a review in the book that says that Ware manages to reach back into the past and remove all the nostalgia from it, and I have to say that he succeeded in that, although the World's Fair was an interesting thing to think about. I also like the very clear way that atmosphere was conveyed.

This book should have a guide to it, especially an academic guide in all the different ways it can be read in itself, paralleled and held against other materials. It ultimately deals with the human condition -- that we are born and die alone, in these bodies, and sometimes we can ignore that existential truth with something else. That is enough to depress me right there, and some of his narrative self-derisive digressions and wordplay where it would have once amused only makes me feel a little contemptuous. That and in many places the font was WAY too small. Creativity gone horribly wrong when the audience can barely even see it with a magnifying glass.

That said, it was a beautiful looking book and I still don't know how the hell these "reviews" keep getting more and more complicated. :-p A good study of a product of comics, but probably not something I want to focus on for too long myself ... even though a part of me wants to look through the complex family tree diagrams over again for stuff I have missed and an ending that I may or may not understand.

It was, I will admit, kind of rewarding to get through as much as I did here.

I just hope that poor bastard gets a break at some point.

Extra Note: There is an article at the beginning of this book, a small wee-little article that discusses the use and development of the comics medium. It's actually worth reading if, again, you can get past the small print. You may be able to find a larger version of it, or order it from the company. If not, then the author was lying. Again. Good luck if you seek it.


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Goofy Beast
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Thanks a lot. There's much to think about there. Smile


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We scraped along like rats, but now we will soar like eagles… eagles on pogo sticks!
 
Posts: 9704 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: September 05, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Yahr, fear the power of the elf-man!
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*Avoids new posts*

I am halfway through.
I want to read all thoughts when I have finished.

Still depressing but it has me hooked.


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my cup runs over but I am so blind I just complain as it spills around me
 
Posts: 13673 | Location: The Cenotaph road and Oh-Hi-Oh | Registered: October 25, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Yahr, fear the power of the elf-man!
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I finished. Smile
I have not read the notes in the back of the book yet starting with :apology" but I will.

I think you both make some very interesting points and insights.

I had conflicting feelings as I read this book. Often, but not always, a story allows to see a character transform from what he or she was when the story began to something else. I found it interesting that this story did not take that route. I guess the scene at the end when he meets the new office girl who is working late on Thanksgiving might lead to something more positive in the life of Jim but we are not left with any real evidence to that affect. The reason I felt conflicted was that there were so many times I found myself wanting to see a typical Hollywood ending and have Jim find some solace and happiness in his life but at the same time I would have been very disappointed and angry had the story taken that route. Still, I wanted to see poor Jim get a break, come out of his shell and start to grow. He is 36 and I fear that his behaviors are quite ingrained and he may not be able to grow emotionally at this point. It is frustrating and beautiful at the same time that the reader will never really know.
I really enjoyed the art and style of the comic as well. Simple and complex at the same time. Almost reminded me of Charlie Harper at times.

I also thought it was interesting that we never see the characters of Jim Corrigan or his grandfather outside of their current age and childhood flashbacks. There is no observance of their teenage lives and other years years between the then and now. I think this was done on purpose to make us focus on how we are still have many of the frailties and insecurities of childhood and that time in our lives helps define us maybe more than any other.

I am rambling a bit but as painful as it was to read, I really enjoyed it.


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my cup runs over but I am so blind I just complain as it spills around me
 
Posts: 13673 | Location: The Cenotaph road and Oh-Hi-Oh | Registered: October 25, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Goofy Beast
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I think the lack of development (what you called a "typical Hollywood ending") is quite a common trend in a certain type of writing coming especially from the US - I mentioned About Schmidt earlier on, and a number of indie movies and short stories that don't go for "quirky" seem to have a similar quality. The small tragedy of the small man, the low-key tragedy of sad, pathetic lives and people who are vaguely aware of how pathetic their lives are, yet they're not aware enough or strong enough to do much about it. Any positive developments are tentative at best (like the bit with the office girl that you mentioned).

Lots of people seem to hate that sort of story - they find it depressing and pointless. I think they can be very effective if done well; in the case of Jimmy Corrigan, it's the subtlety in the characterisation and the formal virtuosity. What is essential to them is that the writer doesn't look down on the characters or uses them for cheap laughs.


__________
We scraped along like rats, but now we will soar like eagles… eagles on pogo sticks!
 
Posts: 9704 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: September 05, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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