It's true that these books aren't great on plot, and the Good Guys do some things that are dicey in my book (we can talk about this in greater detail when everyone is beyond the spoiler stage), but I found Cooper to be a master of atmosphere. Somehow these books just feel more magical than almost anything else (but Over Sea, Under Stone less so than the others). The second book had some parts that damn near scared the snot out of me at age 12, because the depiction of what Will was experiencing was so very vivid.

- Cho

I was always very taken with how her characters seem, often, to be in REAL danger. it's something that CS Lewis never managed, and Cooper and Alan Garner were masters of. sometimes she misses her mark and you don't really worry that too much is going to go wrong, but more often than not, you think that the main characters are in very tight situations and you truly worry for them.

I've just started the Grey King. I think i'm enjoying the later books more. I was wondering about the schedule because I understand Aitapata is spending less time on the board at the moment?

Well, I just finished The Dark is Rising. Hmmm ... The background really really delved deep and definitely did not "talk down." The plot, well ... and some of the characters seemed a little flat, and honestly those good guys and bad ... :-P. But there were a lot of interesting elements in there.

And I liked the transitions from scene to scene. I could see it in a very cinematic way. This scene -- to this scene ...

Now, I'm going to start on the actual first book.

Finished "Over Sea, Under Stone" and am now halfway through "The Dark is Rising." I'm really enjoying the descriptions in the book, and if someone hadn't pointed out how all the pieces of the puzzle just seem to fall into the hands of the main characters, I don't think that would have bothered me (lord knows, it doesn't in other fantasy books, where it happens all the time - Patricia McKillip case in point).

I think I'm against the majority here with liking "Over Sea, Under Stone" better than "The Dark is Rising" - it felt more real and more anchored somehow, to me. Reading about Will, I can't help but sort of feel like I'm reading from the point of view of a kid that's hitting puberty and becoming schezophrentic (sp?) or developing some other severe mental condition involving delusions of grandeur, simultaious confidence in his immortality and feelings of being in great peril, full belief in a magical world, etc, etc.

I remember reading these books when I was young, and I know that never occurred to me, and if it had I wouldn't care. Again, I read other fantasy pretty regularly, and don't think "gee, this main character is obviously going nuts" but it's happening here. I'll see if that impression dies down a bit after reading more.

quote:

I think I'm against the majority here with liking "Over Sea, Under Stone" better than "The Dark is Rising" - it felt more real and more anchored somehow, to me. Reading about Will, I can't help but sort of feel like I'm reading from the point of view of a kid that's hitting puberty and becoming schizophrenic or developing some other severe mental condition involving delusions of grandeur, simultaious confidence in his immortality and feelings of being in great peril, full belief in a magical world, etc, etc.

That seems to be a central element in several novels and comics. I've always liked how Matt Wagner's MAGE was just a little step over from Perry's insanity in THE FISHER KING.

BRIDGE TO TERIBETHEA is a classic example of where the line between make-believe and real is very thin, but I've never really read or seen a good example where it was really the line between insanity and reality. Either you can believe in this wonderful world where magic rules and you're the hero or you can live in a very non-magical world where you are a pretty useless kid.

Kinda like that one episode of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER where she thinks she might be in an insane asylum and imagining all these adventures.

I finished The Silver Tree last week, sometime last week.

I do like the characters, and she writes very believable people and scenery - I could envision it all quite easily. I like that. But again, it was just underwhelming.

Maybe because I read these as a cynical 37 year old? I've just come to expect some drama, some sense that perhaps it won't work out.

I'm very "meh" about Silver on the Tree. I love Dark is Rising and Grey King, but could do without Silver and Over Sea. Greenwitch is...okay. I like some of the female power aspects.

I liked some of the details about Silver on the Tree, but as a whole, it really didn't fly. You're on target about that, as far as I'm concerned.

- Cho

quote:

Originally posted by Jocelyn:
Reading about Will, I can't help but sort of feel like I'm reading from the point of view of a kid that's hitting puberty and becoming schezophrentic (sp?) or developing some other severe mental condition involving delusions of grandeur, simultaious confidence in his immortality and feelings of being in great peril, full belief in a magical world, etc, etc.

I kind of understand that. And the forces of Light kind of creep me out a bit, especially how they are always hovering around Will too. When they are not being horribly arrogant and over-confident. Isn't that the villain's role?

Then you have the Dark which is just ... laughable to me. I don't know, some parts of it just felt rushed and over-simplified. And the constant repetition of "The Old Ones, the Old Ones," just kind of gets annoying after a while. I did like the character of the Walker though. There was a lot of potential in that character.

Heh. I am having a little bit of difficulty getting into Over Sea, Under Stone to be honest, but for some reason it just seems, to me, more ... sophisticated. I think as I get into it more it will become more interesting. It already is now in a way. Maybe I should keep reading it after all.

I think what I did not like about Over Sea, Under Stone was that it established the story so firmly in "our" world - I read it as being realistic.

I found it impossible to believe that there would be this adult - a professor, no less! - & instead of using his knowledge & intellect & locate the grail in 2 seconds, he gets 3 kids to do it. It just didn't make sense - trying to distract their opponents instead of just looking for the thing himself. And apparently just sending off the children on what he claims is a "dangerous" mission.

The Dark is Rising worked a lot better for me in this context, as the two worlds can coexist quite happily without excluding each other. True, the "Old Ones" are rather patronising, & comments like "every word means sth" (I can't remember the exact quote) just make me snarl because I'm not sure the books are written quite well enough to warrant that kind of confidence in the words.

But having said that, The Dark is Rising already convinced me a lot more than the other one, so I could well imagine that I also had problems getting started & that I will like the next ones all the more. And, as Maeve pointed out, some of it may be down to not having read them first as a kid.

I've just finished The Grey King. I was wondering what this one would be like, seeing as it won some kind of award, & so far I would say it was really the best of the bunch. Maybe because some of the issues feel a bit more adult or mature, although I felt some of the end was a bit contrived (why does Bran have to be King Arhtur's son?). What I also liked is that the novel seems to address one of its problematic points (the fact that the "Old Ones" are seemingly allowed to push around the "mere mortals" as pawns that in my opinion doesn't really mark them out as all that good). Maybe it's more alluded to in the discussion about there being coldness in the light, but I liked it.

I just saw the film based on The Dark Rising called The Seeker tonight.

It had some very different elements, and it ... kind of had the spirit of the book save that the Dark seemed much more powerful, the Stantons are descendants of an English moved back to England, and a few other things that I won't mention. It also seemed more like a made for TV movie than anything on the big screen.

Has anyone else seen this yet?

I've been dreading that, ever since I heard it was going to be made. IIRC, they've made Will into a typical Troubled Teen, and his family is nasty to him. When you do that, you lose all the poignancy associated with the fact that he has to hide things from them and that, in fact, he will eventually leave them all behind, because he's immortal and they aren't.

Does it help that it made $3.7 milliom opening in 3000 theatres? Its going to have real trouble making its money back, especially since European audiences are likely to be even less forgiving

i actually really liked the movie, but i havent read any of the books yet. what i liked most was that even though it was clearly targeted toward young adults, i didnt think that it treated the audience like they were illiterate idiots. i wrote about what i thought in my blog (link below). i guess what im wondering is just whether the books are written in a way that's targeted toward kids or can i enjoy them just as much as an adult?