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Originally posted by Surgeon Bob:
In the actual book, it says that Snape is the Half Blood Prince. I disagree that Dumbledore's spirit will come back from the dead to help Harry. I do think, however, that Dumbledore's portrait in the Headmasters office will help Harry in his search for the Horcruxes. The only thing is, where is the other portrait going to be located?

other portrait? ummm, they can have many. but what's the point?

Other spots for DD's portraits: MoM and St. Mungo's and HQ for the Order of the Phoenix.

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Originally posted by Zanzax:

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Originally posted by Surgeon Bob:
In the actual book, it says that Snape is the Half Blood Prince. I disagree that Dumbledore's spirit will come back from the dead to help Harry. I do think, however, that Dumbledore's portrait in the Headmasters office will help Harry in his search for the Horcruxes. The only thing is, where is the other portrait going to be located?

other portrait? ummm, they can have many. but what's the point?

According to the Fifth & Sxth Harry Potter books, each Headmaster and Headmistress has 1 other portrait in another place they are associated with. Like St. Mungo's or The Department of Mysteries. Sure they have other portraits, but they can travel between only two of them.

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Originally posted by moonysmiles:
Other spots for DD's portraits: MoM and St. Mungo's and HQ for the Order of the Phoenix.

I was thinking along those lines as well, but I felt that these places were a tade bit obviouse and that Rowling would like to keep us on our toes with a completly different place.

The whole thing about only being able to go between two portraits is bull I mean how else would Dumbledor have been able to have his portrait go between his chocolate frog cards??? Each of the OoP has a card and that is what dumbledor would use to bring them to meetings. I still think dumbledor might have a horcrux out their that Voldemort doesn't know about...or another way of coming back.

Where, exactly, is the proof that the OoP usese D's Chocolate Frog Card as something to communicate with? They communicate using the Patronus's, this we know. Also, I think that D is to far on the light side that he would go as evil as to create a Horcrux (I know that he defeated Grindelwald, but creating a Horcrux is an evil thing to do). I do, however, believe that Dumbledore will come back from a more ancient magic.

I think Rowling said on her website that the OoP (that is a wonderful acronym for any group, btw) would never use chocolate frog cards in the future as well.

I agree that it would be out of character for the big D to make a Horcrux, though I do wonder if there's some reason he wanted Snape in particular to kill him. (Assuming Snape is still on the good side.) It's at least a difficult moral question, asking your friend/follower to hurt his own soul by killing you.

edit: Dang, but I'm bad at spelling.

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Originally posted by iphigenia:
I think Rowling said on her website that the OoP (that is a wonderful acronym for any group, btw) would never use chocolate frog cards in the future as well.

I agree that it would be out of character for the big D to make a Horcrux, though I do wonder if there's some reason he wanted Snape in particular to kill him. (Assuming Snape is still on the good side.) It's at least a difficult moral question, asking your friend/follower to hurt his own soul by killing you.

Exactly! I also have to admit that there was something behind Dumbledore having Snape kill him rather than another Death Eater at the castle. By the way, that's an interesting name you have.

Yeah, when I reread book six recently, I was surprised at how centered on Snape the death scene was. I hadn't really enjoyed HBP the first time I read it; I had come to feel a little frustrated with both the narrator's presence and the focus on Harry throughout the series, and it seemed like that book had a surfeit of both.

But with Harry paralyzed and the other Death Eaters relative unknowns (Greyback in particular seems unqualifiedly bad, and the others borderline insane), the scene really did center on Snape and Dumbledore in a way unusual for the series. It seems like the unhappy ending to Dumbledore's father-like relationship with Snape casts a shadow on his similar ties to Harry.

I'm hoping we hear more about Snape's relationship with Lily and the Malfoys in the last book as well. I admit, I do hope it doesn't turn out that Snape was secretly in love in Lily/Narcissa; it would seem a little too pat to me.

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By the way, that's an interesting name you have.

Thanks. I've always been interested in mythology, and it came up recently in a book I was reading.

As I re-read the death scene a few times today, I noticed something. I noticed that Malfoy was thinking of killing him, remember?

Well, as the scene progressed, I got the impression that, when Dumbledore was talking to Malfoy, trying to convince him to join his side, Dumbledore was trying to make Malfoy talk and his mind to go off in a different direction, rather than killing him.

Then, after Snape reached the top to the tower, I noticed that Dumbledore seemed more willing to die, and didn't bother trying to get Snape's mind into another area. He just asked Snape to help him, which meant "kill me".

Do you know if there is any recently posted inforamtion on Rowlings website? I haven't visited it in a while.

I haven't seen anything new on the site re the book. I do tend to use the text version to avoid the animations though, so if that doesn't include special info., I haven't seen it.

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Well, as the scene progressed, I got the impression that, when Dumbledore was talking to Malfoy, trying to convince him to join his side, Dumbledore was trying to make Malfoy talk and his mind to go off in a different direction, rather than killing him.

Yeah, that part puzzled me a bit. I believed that D. was genuine in his offer to hide Malfoy and his mother, so I wasn't sure how he expected the scene to go if Malfoy had agreed to this idea. Would D. have pretended to kill Malfoy in front of the Death Eaters? But it seemed like D. did not know about the vanishing cabinet, so who did he expect to be the audience for Malfoy's fake death? Maybe he just came up with that plan on the fly, but he must have had some similar plan to help Malfoy, as he knew about the kid's trouble with Voldemort, and general plans to kill him.

And that leaves me still unsure about whether D. planned to die himself regardless of the details of Malfoy's plans. He must have known about Snape's oath, so I wonder whether his training Harry was a backup, or more of an acknowledgment that he wouldn't survive.

I think that Dumbledore had already pre-planned this whole event. I think that he did know what Malfoy was already planning from Snape. So, he probably wouldn't have pretended to kill Malfoy because remember, no one else was on the tower with them until after Dumbledore's speech on how it would benefit Malfoy to joining his side.

When you say "Snape's oath", do you mean his oath as a Death Eater? Because if you do mean this, then the answer is yes. He previously knew that he was a Death Eater, so he had to know of his oath.

I think that he knew that he was going to die sometime soon, so he was training Harry in the things that he speculated on. I also think that maybe some sort of X-Man thing will happen, and he will come back stronger then ever.

You guys will toss this right out, but my boyfriend and I have the theory that, Dumbledore is the big bad, and Voldemort is simply HIS pawn.

Edit: And I simply don't believe Dumbledore is dead, or if he is, will stay that way.

Well, it COULD happen, I guess. Yeah! Watch the first few minutes of Red Dragon, wtih the detective and you will know that Dumbledore would be the least likely person to be the bad guy.

Heh. That sounds like a story Neil might write a few years from now, along the lines of Snow, Glass, and Apples or the Problem of Susan. And of course, it would be told from Draco Malfoy's perspective.

BTW, what I was talking about earlier today was if Dumbledore turned out to be the bad guy. It would have a Hannibal Lector sort of discovery.

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When you say "Snape's oath", do you mean his oath as a Death Eater? Because if you do mean this, then the answer is yes. He previously knew that he was a Death Eater, so he had to know of his oath.

Oh, I meant his oath to Narcissa at the beginning of book six, not his general Death Eater oath. It just wondered if the oath to Narcissa came first, or if Dumbledore had a plan to have Snape kill him before that.

As to D. possibly being evil...Hm, I dunno, I think it'd be heck of a twist, but I can't imagine any good motivation. He's turned down being minister for so long, I dunno why he'd want power now. I guess he could become so fed up with official bungling that he'd want to end democratic gov't?

I re-read HBP and I began to wonder about something. Why did Voldemort send Wormtail to assist Snape? What was he to assist Snape with? I think that this was previously mentioned, I would just like to revive the topic.

Well, I don't think it's every revealed in the book itself, but my guess was that Wormtail was either there to keep an eye on Snape for Voldemort and/or to keep Wormtail out of the way.

Snape hadn't killed D. at this point, so V. wouldn't have much reason to trust him, so Wormtail might be a somewhat useful (if not incredibly competent) spy.

Wormtail still owes Harry a life debt for saving him from Lupin and Sirius in the Shrieking Shack, so I don't know if V. would want him too close now that he has gathered the other Death Eaters to him.

There's also the possibility of Snape using Wormtail as an asisstant in some potions experiment for V.

I remember reading somewhere the theory that as Lily was so remarkably good at potions, that she may have been involved in something potions-related for the Order when she was killed. (This is a long shot, but could tie in with why V. would think the prophecy referrred to Harry rather than Neville; if the Potters were involved in some experimental potions for D., they might already by on V.'s radar as a threat).

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Originally posted by iphigenia:
I do hope it doesn't turn out that Snape was secretly in love in Lily/Narcissa; it would seem a little too pat to me.

I think this was already more than a little implied in the latest book.

I think it's still quite possible for Dumbledore to return in some way to help Harry but I don't buy the portrait stuff. None of the other portraits had much influence on anything, not even as counselors. He was somehow tied to the Phoenix and that can be used to bring him back in some fashion. Otherwise his arranged death doesn't make much sense. He could have cut his dammaged hand to destroy it, if it was a horcrux, instead of getting himself killed altogether.