Neil Gaiman www.NeilgaimanBoard.com www.NeilgaimanBoard.com The World's End Other Writers WEBC: The Master and Margarita discussion (watch out for spoilers!)
www.NeilgaimanBoard.com www.NeilgaimanBoard.com The World's End Other Writers WEBC: The Master and Margarita discussion (watch out for spoilers!)|
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Warrior/Hunter/Judge/Prey Member  |
I hope i'm not stepping on anyone's toes by starting this thread.
I'm just wondering: of those of us who are reading it now, which translation are you reading? I'm reading the Mirra Ginsburg version. I'm wondering how much of a difference the translation makes. |
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Goofy Beast Member  |
Diana Burgin and Katherine Tiernan O'Connor. According to the back cover, it's "the first complete, annotated English translation". Then again, I'm not reading it again for now, simply because I'm utterly overburdened with things. Sorry...
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mutant hedgehog worm Member  |
Michael Glenny - whoever he is, and yes would be interesting to see if it makes a difference, an annotated version would be good but i'm just going to have to manage without.
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Member |
i have no idea who translated my copy, but it was class. cat shadow on the front, black and gloomy like the inside of my socks
i played connect the dots with your beauty marks and came up with picture perfect sheet music. |
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is a loose cannon Member  |
I have the same annotated edition Thirith has. I originally bought it for a class in 2000.
"You pass through the places, and the places they pass through you, but you carry 'em with you on the soles of your travelin' shoes." --The Be Good Tanyas, "The Littlest Birds" http://hatchingphoenix.livejournal.com www.xanga.com/hatching_phoenix |
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There is no custom member title here. Member  |
What's this book? where do i get it? where was it decided? what's the genere? etc
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Warrior/Hunter/Judge/Prey Member |
Tlön: check out the thread dedicated to the World's End Book Club. This is the second round.
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Warrior/Hunter/Judge/Prey Member |
Hrm. It seems i managed to pick the worst possible translation of the book--it's based on the censored edition and is missing some critical scenes. It's also not annotated, which would go a long way toward explaining why i'm just not getting much out of it.
Anyway, for anyone else in this predicament, there's what seems to be a fairly good website on the book that offers explanations here and there: link here. |
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Always the April Fool Member  |
I tried reading this book back in August after a friend recommended to me, but I didn't get very far with it. I had no idea what was going on and felt totally out to sea. I don't remember who did the translation though, which may have contributed to the problem.
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is part of the international oatmeal conspiracy Member  |
also reading the Diana Burgn and Katherine Tiernan O'Connor version. finding it rather clear other than the story being completely bizarre on its own...
High Ranking Official of the Realm of Unproductivity and Procrastination, Dean of the UUP, First Class member of the order of the Pineapple. scruffy ambulating reanimated hypothetical vegetarian leigonairre of the undead. ~ Cav Look, I've got a cape and a tendency towards violence. It does not make me a superhero! ~ Domitella |
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Warrior/Hunter/Judge/Prey Member |
Jeff, i finished the book and i'm just as baffled as you seem to have been with it.
It's not that it was unclear--just that it felt like plotplotplotplot plot, plotplot, plotplotplot--with no real breathing room. That, and after checking out that website yesterday i realized that the version i read was missing a couple of important sections. I think i found it particularly difficult because without any real knowledge of Russian/Soviet history, i couldn't pick up on what was satire (or why it was funny). The love story left be a bit cold, though i found the religious stuff interesting. I will say this: going from Aegypt, which is about 3% plot and 97% reflection, to this, which is about 94% plot and 6% reflection, was a very weird experience in and of itself. Punk, out of curiosity, what are you getting from the book aside from the more obvious superficial stuff? |
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Always the April Fool Member |
Part of the problem may also have been lack of a historical context. According to my notes taken from the inside cover of the book this was banned for being an "anti-Stalinist critique."
I also just remembered...the version I read (which I got from the library) had a picture of a cat with a machine gun on the cover. |
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is part of the international oatmeal conspiracy Member |
Um, I'm not too far in yet. Just finished chapter 10 (about 1/3). So far, I think it is mainly set up. Its mainly plot, even though I don't exactly know where the hell it is going. there is a commentary at the end of my edition that helps a little bit the with the whole history bit. I do have some russian history, so i think i'm getting some of the references.
High Ranking Official of the Realm of Unproductivity and Procrastination, Dean of the UUP, First Class member of the order of the Pineapple. scruffy ambulating reanimated hypothetical vegetarian leigonairre of the undead. ~ Cav Look, I've got a cape and a tendency towards violence. It does not make me a superhero! ~ Domitella |
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is part of the international oatmeal conspiracy Member |
it. had. no. plot.
i...don't think i liked it. the bits i liked most were about Pontius Pilate and those were short. i just really couldn't get into any of the characters. High Ranking Official of the Realm of Unproductivity and Procrastination, Dean of the UUP, First Class member of the order of the Pineapple. scruffy ambulating reanimated hypothetical vegetarian leigonairre of the undead. ~ Cav Look, I've got a cape and a tendency towards violence. It does not make me a superhero! ~ Domitella |
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Doddering stodger Member  |
I really enjoyed it. Its the only time period in Russian politics I really know about and I find it fascinating
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Warrior/Hunter/Judge/Prey Member |
I couldn't agree more. I think above somewhere i said it was all plot, but i think what i meant was more that it was all action with little reflection. And i'm not entirely sure how the Pontius Pilate bits really related to the Moscow bits. I suspect that if i knew anything at all about Russian politics and history (*nods to Robbie*) i would have enjoyed it far more than i did. As it was, probably almost all of the symbolism and satire were lost on me. Has anyone checked out the link i posted up there by any chance? I'm curious as to whether it's helpful. |
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Goofy Beast Member |
I haven't reread it, since I'm way too busy, but when I read it roughly two years ago, I also enjoyed it for its wild inventiveness and absurdity. (Perhaps some of that would be less absurd if I knew more about the historical context, mind you.) At the same time I found the Pilate/Christ plot thought-provoking and moving, and the whole "Satan visits the modern world and causes all sorts of mayhem (which, let's face it, human beings come up with all the time without his help" thing definitely resonated after I'd spent a lot of time on Rushdie's Satanic Verses. I should really reread the novel, but that won't happen before autumn...
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is part of the international oatmeal conspiracy Member |
anyone else? did the WEBC fail massively this round?
High Ranking Official of the Realm of Unproductivity and Procrastination, Dean of the UUP, First Class member of the order of the Pineapple. scruffy ambulating reanimated hypothetical vegetarian leigonairre of the undead. ~ Cav Look, I've got a cape and a tendency towards violence. It does not make me a superhero! ~ Domitella |
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Goofy Beast Member |
I feel somewhat guilty saying this, since I'm not too active in the book club (too much on right now), in addition to which I was one of the people to suggest The Master and Margarita... but I do think that if we keep this going, we have to structure it more. For instance: We could have different people in charge of different chapters, and then every week or so we'd deal with a chapter. The person in charge could then prepare questions for discussion, perhaps even check whether there are interesting web resources on the bits they've focused on. Without that sort of focus, there's just too much of a risk of the discussion turning into: "I liked it." "I didn't." "..." "..." "Let's go for a drink." |
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is part of the international oatmeal conspiracy Member |
very true.
but it seems to formal then. and people read at different times, like a chapter a day or the book all at once. so I don't know how that would work. High Ranking Official of the Realm of Unproductivity and Procrastination, Dean of the UUP, First Class member of the order of the Pineapple. scruffy ambulating reanimated hypothetical vegetarian leigonairre of the undead. ~ Cav Look, I've got a cape and a tendency towards violence. It does not make me a superhero! ~ Domitella |
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Neil Gaiman www.NeilgaimanBoard.com www.NeilgaimanBoard.com The World's End Other Writers WEBC: The Master and Margarita discussion (watch out for spoilers!)
www.NeilgaimanBoard.com www.NeilgaimanBoard.com The World's End Other Writers WEBC: The Master and Margarita discussion (watch out for spoilers!)© YourCopy 2001