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mama love her llama
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you could do a sort of midpoint review type thing. when you reach the middle, you post about where you think it's going, themes so far etc. let discussion spark from there. ... but then you'd need a separate spoilers thread and.. .blah complicated.



lookit me, i'm postin! wheee!
 
Posts: 13812 | Location: Mpls, MN USA | Registered: August 24, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Goofy Beast
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I agree that too much organisation and formalisation could be a problem, but I do think we'd need a minimum - especially with as complex a book as the Bulgakov. I could also imagine that this sort of thing may make people appreciate those books more that otherwise they might just file under "I didn't get it". (I don't think that someone who reads a whole book 'doesn't get it'... people would often be surprised to see how much they do get if they had the opportunity to discuss it in a more focused way.)


__________
We scraped along like rats, but now we will soar like eagles… eagles on pogo sticks!
 
Posts: 9704 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: September 05, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
is part of the international oatmeal conspiracy
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true.
so maybe when someone's done reading it, they can post some questions that they'd like answered? or perhaps someone should volunteer at the beginning of the book selection to post questions while they read?


High Ranking Official of the Realm of Unproductivity and Procrastination, 
Dean of the UUP, First Class member of the order of the Pineapple.

scruffy ambulating reanimated hypothetical vegetarian leigonairre of the undead.  ~ Cav

Look, I've got a cape and a tendency towards violence.  It does not make me a superhero!  ~ Domitella


 
Posts: 23257 | Location: Somewhereshire | Registered: January 05, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I've read it about 3 times, and I'm going to read it again.
This book is simply that good. It is intriguing as well as funny.
With an unbeatable satire on a totalitarian regime.
But then again I have the Dutch (1997) uncensored translation with a compendium explaining certain events, names an motivation for the parts which where censored originally.
In previous versions the text was still cencored.

Fluf:
I shall mention one little fact the cat’s name is Behemoth which means hippo, so when a Russian reeds it he sees a giant hippo cat figure.
 
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Warrior/Hunter/Judge/Prey
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quote:
Originally posted by silly_punk, feral student:
true.
so maybe when someone's done reading it, they can post some questions that they'd like answered? or perhaps someone should volunteer at the beginning of the book selection to post questions while they read?

See, i did this with Neverending Story and got the impression people thought i asked the questions because i didn't "get it"--which was fine, but a little awkward for me. I wasn't entirely comfortable with the discussion at points simply because it seemed like i was coming across as, well...stupid. And that's just not cool.

So, i guess what i'm saying is that if people are going to put out questions for discussion, perhaps it should be the people who already know the book well enough--since they'll be a better judge of who's "getting it" and who isn't.

That isn't to say that people who felt like they didn't get much out of the book shouldn't ask questions, just that it would probably be a better discussion if at least one person could take on the role of teacher for at least part of the book.

Just my $0.02.


***********************
Trowels, compasses, and postage stamps.
The Observatory: quotes and reviews
 
Posts: 7142 | Location: lurking beneath the floorboards of the old Twilight Cafe | Registered: August 30, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Well at least read it cover to cover.

It's worth it.. (in my humble opinion)
 
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Warrior/Hunter/Judge/Prey
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Oh, i did read it cover to cover. I think i probably read the version least conducive to appreciating it, though.

My comment was aimed more at the general idea of guided discussions.


***********************
Trowels, compasses, and postage stamps.
The Observatory: quotes and reviews
 
Posts: 7142 | Location: lurking beneath the floorboards of the old Twilight Cafe | Registered: August 30, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
is part of the international oatmeal conspiracy
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how about trying to figure out a date/time when we could all just decide to come here and post?

i dunno. i think this book has gone over a month hasn't it?


High Ranking Official of the Realm of Unproductivity and Procrastination, 
Dean of the UUP, First Class member of the order of the Pineapple.

scruffy ambulating reanimated hypothetical vegetarian leigonairre of the undead.  ~ Cav

Look, I've got a cape and a tendency towards violence.  It does not make me a superhero!  ~ Domitella


 
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Goofy Beast
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quote:
Originally posted by Circus:
See, i did this with Neverending Story and got the impression people thought i asked the questions because i didn't "get it"--which was fine, but a little awkward for me.

If that was me (or also me), I'm sorry. I probably come across like that when talking about books. Just for the record, though, I think that practically all questions (okay, except perhaps for ones such as "Isn't Atreju just the dreamiest ever?" - which no one did ask Wink) can lead to interesting discussion.


__________
We scraped along like rats, but now we will soar like eagles… eagles on pogo sticks!
 
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mutant hedgehog worm
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Ok glad i read this thread i was scared as i'm still reading the book and didn't want to get any spoilers, i'm about 1/3 of the way through and really enjoying it. However i have to seriously concentrate while reading it (damn there are a lot of characters with fairly absurd names!). So i'm finding it slow going. My copy also has no annotations. Frown

I also know a small bit of culture and history involved (i did russian back in school, and visited in 97) so i'm in that camp, maybe why i'm enjoying it. That and it is amusing and completely absurd at times.
 
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mutant hedgehog worm
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I had to just go read the old thread to make sure it wasn't me that did that Circus Big Grin

And yup would be good to have discussion based on questions that encourage debate, maybe we could have a seperate one for questions where you didn't get something, just to clarify and allow for both types? Some sort of symbol before a question? like ? for a question where you don't have a clue and @ for one to discuss?

Example:

? - Are all the writers named in the Massolit diner actual writers? (i'm guessing yes which would add to the satire if you actually knew any of them....)
 
Posts: 7823 | Location: The wilds of Canada | Registered: July 30, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Some of the persons I can answer.

Well some of them are composed of real life persons, for instance Bezdomny.
Which means "The homeless" in those times these pseudonyms where popular since Maksim Gorki (the bitter, in real life his name was Aleksej M. Pesjkov) And Demjan Bedny (the poor)
The last one made a stream of propaganda poems, including anti religious ones , he wrote and lived at the Kremlin, he is being seen as one of the models for Bezdommy
 
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Warrior/Hunter/Judge/Prey
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[hijack]

Thirith and Hal--no worries! I'm thinking that the larger part of the awkwardness was my own interpretation, and not anything that anyone actually said. I don't harbor any bad feelings toward anyone about it.

I meant my last post more with the hope that having part of the discussion as guided by someone who feels they have a strong knowledge of the books would spare the same sort of (unintended!) weirdness.

Hal, i really like your idea of using ? and @ to differentiate the kinds of questions--especially because i'd expect that the same question, when prefaced with one or the other, would bring about vastly different answers.

Sorry about the hijack! Discuss on!

[/hijack]


***********************
Trowels, compasses, and postage stamps.
The Observatory: quotes and reviews
 
Posts: 7142 | Location: lurking beneath the floorboards of the old Twilight Cafe | Registered: August 30, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
really is wicked
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quote:
Originally posted by silly_punk, feral student:

i dunno. i think this book has gone over a month hasn't it?


Yeah, that's kinda my fault. I just haven't had any time to come around here much and pay attention, sorry.

I don't think it's that important to keep to a book a month. As and when, I say. Within reason.

Anyhow.....thanks Circus for starting this thread!!!

**goes off to read thread**


-----------------------------

St.Barbarella:
Sexy Tart.
Buys Ale, Reads Books, And Really Enjoys Leaving Lovers Aching - JP


yes, University is all about incontinence - Mythos

You are a Tradesman. Long before labor unions, your guilds were powerful enough to make a free-market capitalist run away screaming. Who controls the British Crown? Who keeps the metric system down? You do, you do.
 
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really is wicked
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quote:
Originally posted by Thirith & His Enormous Tibia:
quote:
Originally posted by silly_punk, feral student:
anyone else? did the WEBC fail massively this round?

I feel somewhat guilty saying this, since I'm not too active in the book club (too much on right now), in addition to which I was one of the people to suggest The Master and Margarita... but I do think that if we keep this going, we have to structure it more. For instance: We could have different people in charge of different chapters, and then every week or so we'd deal with a chapter. The person in charge could then prepare questions for discussion, perhaps even check whether there are interesting web resources on the bits they've focused on. Without that sort of focus, there's just too much of a risk of the discussion turning into:

"I liked it."
"I didn't."
"..."
"..."
"Let's go for a drink."


That is true, but as silly punk does state, there is the problem of people reading at different times and posting at different times.

Seeing as I started the book club, I shall research ways of running a bookclub today. See if I can't come up with a middleground of being able to read at leasure, and have constructive conversations about the book.

*goes on to read rest of thread...*


-----------------------------

St.Barbarella:
Sexy Tart.
Buys Ale, Reads Books, And Really Enjoys Leaving Lovers Aching - JP


yes, University is all about incontinence - Mythos

You are a Tradesman. Long before labor unions, your guilds were powerful enough to make a free-market capitalist run away screaming. Who controls the British Crown? Who keeps the metric system down? You do, you do.
 
Posts: 11269 | Location: Sheffield, ooop norrff | Registered: May 09, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
really is wicked
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quote:
Originally posted by halucinagenia:
I had to just go read the old thread to make sure it wasn't me that did that Circus Big Grin

And yup would be good to have discussion based on questions that encourage debate, maybe we could have a seperate one for questions where you didn't get something, just to clarify and allow for both types? Some sort of symbol before a question? like ? for a question where you don't have a clue and @ for one to discuss?

Example:

? - Are all the writers named in the Massolit diner actual writers? (i'm guessing yes which would add to the satire if you actually knew any of them....)


I like that idea hal! *has made mental note*


-----------------------------

St.Barbarella:
Sexy Tart.
Buys Ale, Reads Books, And Really Enjoys Leaving Lovers Aching - JP


yes, University is all about incontinence - Mythos

You are a Tradesman. Long before labor unions, your guilds were powerful enough to make a free-market capitalist run away screaming. Who controls the British Crown? Who keeps the metric system down? You do, you do.
 
Posts: 11269 | Location: Sheffield, ooop norrff | Registered: May 09, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
really is wicked
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Ok, so as I said before, I shall endeavour to research about bookclubs today and see if I can't find some inspiration!

Thanks everyone for still sticking with it!!


-----------------------------

St.Barbarella:
Sexy Tart.
Buys Ale, Reads Books, And Really Enjoys Leaving Lovers Aching - JP


yes, University is all about incontinence - Mythos

You are a Tradesman. Long before labor unions, your guilds were powerful enough to make a free-market capitalist run away screaming. Who controls the British Crown? Who keeps the metric system down? You do, you do.
 
Posts: 11269 | Location: Sheffield, ooop norrff | Registered: May 09, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
really is wicked
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Well, here's a little info to get you started. Well, I should have put it up before we started the conversation, but never mind!

quote:
The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov is considered one of the best and most highly regarded novels to come out of Russia during the Soviet era. The book weaves together satire and realism, art and religion, history and contemporary social values. It features three story lines. The main story, taking place in Russia of the 1930s, concerns a visit by the devil, referred to as Professor Woland, and four of his assistants during Holy Week; they use black magic to play tricks on those who cross their paths. Another story line features the Master, who has been languishing in an insane asylum, and his love, Margarita, who seeks Woland's help in being reunited with the Master. A third story, which is presented as a novel written by the Master, depicts the crucifixion of Yeshua Ha-Notsri, or Jesus Christ, by Pontius Pilate.

Using the fantastic elements of the story, Bulgakov satirizes the greed and corruption of Stalin's Soviet Union, in which people's actions were controlled as well as their perceptions of reality. In contrast, he uses a realistic style in telling the story of Yeshua. The holy life led by Christ in this book is more ordinary than the miraculous one told in the Scriptures. Because the book derides government bureaucracy and corruption, the manuscript of The Master and Margarita was hidden for over twenty years, until the more lenient Khrushchev government allowed its publication.



-----------------------------

St.Barbarella:
Sexy Tart.
Buys Ale, Reads Books, And Really Enjoys Leaving Lovers Aching - JP


yes, University is all about incontinence - Mythos

You are a Tradesman. Long before labor unions, your guilds were powerful enough to make a free-market capitalist run away screaming. Who controls the British Crown? Who keeps the metric system down? You do, you do.
 
Posts: 11269 | Location: Sheffield, ooop norrff | Registered: May 09, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
mutant hedgehog worm
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yay i finished it finally!

okay, got into in about halfway through, but haven't had time to read it except lunch breaks at work!

found it an amusing satire, story was okay, though it does sorta bug me in satire when they will go off randomly into someones 'dream' to attack a bunch of people i have never heard of (the hand over your foreign currency bit). has to be one of the most recent satires i've read the last being juvenal (sp?)

interesting way to describe the devil though?
 
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is part of the international oatmeal conspiracy
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i guess it was an interesting way to portray the devil...but he seemed a more pathetic figure really...


High Ranking Official of the Realm of Unproductivity and Procrastination, 
Dean of the UUP, First Class member of the order of the Pineapple.

scruffy ambulating reanimated hypothetical vegetarian leigonairre of the undead.  ~ Cav

Look, I've got a cape and a tendency towards violence.  It does not make me a superhero!  ~ Domitella


 
Posts: 23257 | Location: Somewhereshire | Registered: January 05, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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