Sounds like one of those cross-overs, doesn't it? Next we'll have Predator vs. Neil Gaiman vs. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen vs. Freddy vs. Nurse Ratchet, or something...

Anyway, having just read Promethea Vol. 4, I've realised that although NG's books (Sandman, especially) got me hooked on comics, I get a lot more psyched about new Alan Moore fare. I still love Sandman, but Watchmen, V for Vendetta and From Hell all got under my skin more.

That's why I was wondering: Those of you who have read both authors, who do you prefer? And since there wouldn't be much of a point if this was just an undifferentiated popularity contest (especially on the NG boards), perhaps you could say what you prefer about the one or the other.

To begin with, I do think that there's more depth to many of Moore's works. Not to say that Gaiman is shallow, but he doesn't seem to have the same dense network of allusions on multiple levels that Moore has. On the other hand, for pure enjoyment, I'd pick one of my favourite Sandman collections over From Hell or Watchmen any time.

I guess for me Gaiman's work would be more like my favourite TV series: I love the world, I love the feel, it's something that I like to return to because I know what I'll get. Moore is more like an ambitious movie: I might not get or enjoy everything, but it'll keep nagging at me. It'll challenge me more.

Anyway, I'll stop here before I make even less sense... Looking forward to your replies.

--
"With writing, I find, you can have all the right ingredients, give plenty of time and care, and still get nothing. Also true of love. Cooking, therefore, can keep a person who tries hard sane." -- John Irving, The World According to Garp

Moore's stuff has had more impact on me than Gaiman's.

Gaiman has ONE truly major work out there, "the Sandman" which is often brilliant, but was occasionally marred by being created for monthly issues. There seems to be a lot of artistic compromises in there.

On the other hand, Moore books like "From Hell" and "Watchmen", "V For Vendetta" and "Promethea" seems much more uncompromising to me. And that's even before mentioning his TRULY uncompromising work like "The Birth Caul" or "The Voice of Fire".

But then Gaiman is surely the first to admit that Moore is the best.

I may change my mind if Gaiman returns to comics and creates some truly stunning work. Until now the best work he's done for comics (apart from some of the best Sandman short stories) is probably the mindblowing "Miracleman: The Golden Age" - where he actually managed to follow Moore on a series without dissapointing. If he can create a complete work in comics that's as good as his Miracleman promised to be, then I may change my mind.

One thing Gaiman does better than Moore is probably the short story form, whether its in comics or as prose. "Ramadan" or "A Midsummer Nights Dream" or "Snow, Glass, Apples", or some of those "Miracleman" shorts in "The Golden Age" - they're pretty hard to beat. Moore seems to do sustained long works better than Gaiman. But maybe Gaiman simple hasnt had a chance to really shine yet. Maybe one day. . .

- Michael

[This message was edited by mtxx on August 13, 2003 at 08:35 AM.]

Its difficult for me to pick just one, but if I really had to choose I'd go with Gaiman becasue really expanded well into a number of written formats (Novels, screen plays, short stories, childrens stories), and I'm only familiar with Moore from his comics. (Has Moore written any novels?)

I agree with what MTXX said about Alan Moore and not compramising his writing for the comics medium. It remindes me of that quote from Rorshach in "Watchman" "Never compramise not even in the face of total Armageddon." I wonder if he's was expressing part of his own personality wrote it.

I've a theory that all the main characters represent a part of Moore's personality.

I can't say which I prefer. I pick up Sandman when I want a pleasant read, Watchmen when I'm in a mood to be challenged.

Well, if we hear any inspirational power chords, we'll just lie down until they go away.
-Giles
__________
AJGraeme

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lurking Mysterio:
(Has Moore written any novels?)

---

Yeah, "Voice of the Fire". It's getting its first US edition in early september (with new illustrations and a foreword by Neil Gaiman). It's not an easy read, but there's some powerful stuff in it.



"Do not trust the tales, or the town, or even the man who tells the tales. Trust only the voice of the fire." -- Neil Gaiman, from the Introduction

"A burning bush of a novel full of earthy wonder and wisdom, Voice of the Fire is a head-spinning trip down time's sacred whirlpool." -- Richard Gehr, Village Voice

"Alan Moore is the best and most innovative writer in graphic novels. I have been a huge admirer for years." -- Michael Moorcock

"Alan takes genuine risks and justifies them: you feel, all the way, the rush of discovery; authorial privilege endangered by the savage voices he allows into his head." -- Iain Sinclair

"A first novel, Voice Of The Fire, slices through the history of his Northampton home, from the Stone Age up to his literal conjuring of an ending from the world around him, swallowing hallucinogens, beaming in messages from the TV -- a wild, shamanic stretching of the writers art." -- Nick Hasted, Uncut

"A daring, unsettling work of literature." -- Locus

"Remarkable, savage and, at times, unbearably beautiful..." -- Time Out

In a story full of lust, madness and ecstasy, we meet twelve distinctive characters that lived in the same region of central England in the span of six thousand years. Their narratives are woven together in patterns of recurring events, strange traditions and uncanny visions. First, a cave-boy looses his mother, falls in love and learns a deadly lesson. He is followed by an extraordinary cast of characters: a murderess who impersonates her victim, a fisherman who believes he has become a different species, a Roman emissary who realizes the bitter truth about the Empire, a crippled nun who is healed miraculously by a disturbing apparition, an old crusader whose faith is destroyed by witnessing the ultimate relic, two witches, lovers, who burn at the stake... Each interconnected tale traces a path in a journey of discovery of the secrets of the land. In its last chapter, Moore himself describes the novel:

"It's about the vital message that the stiff lips of decapitated men still shape; the testament of black and spectral dogs written in piss across our bad dreams. It's about raising the dead to tell us what they know. It is a bridge, a crossing-point, a worn spot in the curtain between our world and the underworld, between the mortar and the myth, fact and fiction, a threadbare gauze no thicker than a page. It's about the powerful glossolalia of witches and their magical revision of the texts we live in. None of this is speakable."

In the tradition of Kipling's Puck of Pook's Hill, Schwob's Imaginary Lives and Borges' A Universal History of Infamy, Moore travels through history blending truth and conjecture, in a novel that is dazzling, moving, sometimes tragic, but always mesmerizing.

This edition presents Voice of the Fire for the first time in hardcover format, featuring an introduction by Neil Gaiman, thirteen full-color plates by José Villarrubia (Promethea & The Mirror of Love), and a dust jacket designed by Chip Kidd.

Order here: http://www.topshelfcomix.com/catalog.php?type=1&page=20

[This message was edited by mtxx on August 13, 2003 at 02:49 PM.]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lurking Mysterio:
Its difficult for me to pick just one, but if I really had to choose I'd go with Gaiman becasue really expanded well into a number of written formats (Novels, screen plays, short stories, childrens stories), and I'm only familiar with Moore from his comics. (Has Moore written any novels?)

---

Yes, but one panel from a typical Alan Moore comic is more memorable then, say, most of Stardust... sure, Neil's done work in more mediums, but Moore has mastered his chosen medium...

See you, space cowboy.

~~~~~~~~~
Roy Orbison singing for the lonely
Hey thats me and I want you only
Don't turn me home again
I just can't face myself alone again
Bruce Springsteen

http://lon.blogspot.com-- Its a slightly less eloquent me

Hmmm... sorrry, i thought this was a thread i'd started back on Flame Wars a while back... hmmmmm... this is hard.... gah...

Moore's done more stuff i like, and Watchmen is up there with Sandman... so i think he wins on sheer numbers alone. Its close, but there's something slightly deeper and darker about his stuff...
In other words, i reread Sandman when i want a familiar story well told. I reread Watchmen when i want to discover something new about myself and the story.

See you, space cowboy.

~~~~~~~~~
Roy Orbison singing for the lonely
Hey thats me and I want you only
Don't turn me home again
I just can't face myself alone again
Bruce Springsteen

http://lon.blogspot.com-- Its a slightly less eloquent me

I'm right in there with Thirith. I prefer Neil's general tone.. the air of almost playful mystery and that little something that makes it all feel like a timeless faery tale. His word choice and such also tend to be a bit more melodic and classical. These make Neil a more enjoyable read for me.

That being said, Alan s just plain better. His stuff, on the whole, is deeper, more rewarding, but also much more difficult both in tone and in content. Reading Moore, particularly at the level of actually trying to absorbe all the various layers, is very difficult and even taxing at times.

Sorta like the difference between reading Joyce and reading Vonnegot. Both have many layers and are worth reading and rereading but each is pretty clearly operating on completely different spheres.

---
jello.
aka aron.
"That's it buddy! You just lost your brain privileges!" - Plankton

Well , I'm going to have to go with Neil on this one . Moore is brilliant in what he does, but Neil tends to be subtler. Of course , this all just opinion , & we know what those are like.

It's not what you say anymore...., it's all in how you say it.

I'll disagree with you on that. Like I said, i reread both Sandman and Watchmen pretty frequently. Sandman keeps revealing new depths of characterization, or nuance... but the story's the same. A good story, well told. Its there, and i love it, but its just... there. To be loved and interpreted.
Everytime I reread Watchmen (and look more deeply at the art), i feel like i'm peeling back another layer. Hell, every time I hear "All Along the Watchtower" (pretty frequently, considering my tastes) i feel like i'm learning something new about the story.

On the other hand, most of Moore's stuff isn't up to Watchmen quality...

See you, space cowboy.

~~~~~~~~~
Roy Orbison singing for the lonely
Hey thats me and I want you only
Don't turn me home again
I just can't face myself alone again
Bruce Springsteen

http://lon.blogspot.com-- Its a slightly less eloquent me

Moore is more political, sure. But deeper? I don't buy it. I mean, Watchmen is pretty challenging, but then Moore's also got a lot of stuff like Top Ten and The League that seem to me to be just fun, well-written superhero jaunts. It seems to me that Alan Moore writes a lot of comics about comics. Although he does have a little more variety than ol' Neil, I'd have to say I liked Sandman far more than Watchmen. Sandman's not social commentary, the metaphors are a lot easier to figure out, but I say that doesn't make it worse.

phool - Well.. lesse, to put it another way that just struck me:

Gaiman does an amazing job showing me the magic that's in the world.

Moore does an amazing job showing me the magic that makes the world.

Both equally important but each operating ona completely different level.

---
jello.
aka aron.
"That's it buddy! You just lost your brain privileges!" - Plankton

That might be it... Moore writes comics about comics. Neil writes comics about life. Considering how much better comics are then life sometimes, that may explain my preference... 'course, Moore also gets at the much darker bits in human nature... but he does it from a reference point i'm intimatly familar with-- the old Four Color Funnies.

Excelsior!

~~~~~~~~~

Join the Church of the Risen Morrison!

Roy Orbison singing for the lonely
Hey thats me and I want you only
Don't turn me home again
I just can't face myself alone again
Bruce Springsteen, "Thunder Road"

"To fall in love is to create a religion with a fallible God"-- Jorge Luis Borges

http://lon.blogspot.com-- Its a slightly less eloquent me

I'm not sure how much I can add to this topic, but here goes. I think Neil's work is more accessible. There are several layers to his works, but he doesn't hide them. Alan is more 'literary,' he isn't afraid to make allusions to subjects that may go over readers heads. For examples, in 'League,' Mina Murray makes reference to the 'Mysterious Island' incident to Captain Nemo, but that's it, no explanation. Now, the Mysterious Island is another book by Jules Verne, which presumably includes Nemo, but to find out what really happens, one has to read the novel. Alan just doesn't hand out favors to the reader, he makes them work for the enjoyment of his work. Now, Neil and Alan are without a doubt some of the best writers to encounter the medium of comic books. But they are intensely different storytellers.

Just look at Neil Gaiman's and Alan Moore's signatures.
I mean Moore has Watchmen and Big Numbers, Gaiman has Sandman and..........

Beware, when you go to bed. Don't expected the Sandman is't there.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Twoman:
Just look at Neil Gaiman's and Alan Moore's signatures.
I mean Moore has Watchmen and Big Numbers, Gaiman has Sandman and..........

---

...and a hugo winning new york times bestseller? Gaiman has had plenty more than just Sandman (just as Moore has plenty more than those 1980s comics you mention)

Yes, but Moore's considered the top man in his field. His signiture stuff is works of genius (though he's been slacking off a bit lately). I don't think you can sompare "wolves in the walls" or "Coraline" to a landmark like "V for Vendetta" or "Watchmen". Neil has Sandman, which about equals Watchmen in influence in popularity... and thats it.

Hell, even Moore's minor stuff gets lauded.


Hmmmm... a metaphor: If you think of the comic industry as the Beatles, Neil's Paul and Moore is John. Neil's popular but kinda coasting, but Moore is still almost as good as he used to be.

Excelsior!

~~~~~~~~~

Join the Church of the Risen Morrison!

Roy Orbison singing for the lonely
Hey thats me and I want you only
Don't turn me home again
I just can't face myself alone again
Bruce Springsteen, "Thunder Road"

"To fall in love is to create a religion with a fallible God"-- Jorge Luis Borges

http://lon.blogspot.com-- Its a slightly less eloquent me

quote:

---

Originally posted by Twoman:
Just look at Neil Gaiman's and Alan Moore's signatures.
I mean Moore has Watchmen and Big Numbers, Gaiman has Sandman and..........

Beware, when you go to bed. Don't expected the Sandman is't there.

---

hey, Black Orchid and, um, the Death spinoffs are every bit the equal of... um.... Tom Strong! Or Top 10! Or Supreme!

Excelsior!

~~~~~~~~~

Join the Church of the Risen Morrison!

Roy Orbison singing for the lonely
Hey thats me and I want you only
Don't turn me home again
I just can't face myself alone again
Bruce Springsteen, "Thunder Road"

"To fall in love is to create a religion with a fallible God"-- Jorge Luis Borges

http://lon.blogspot.com-- Its a slightly less eloquent me

This discussion about Neil "coasting" has been had elsewhere, but how is this so? Stardust really has to be seen in the illustrated edition to be understood as it was intended. Even then, it's not that strong a story, but, for a fairy tale it's pretty darn good.

Neverwhere was essentially the novelization of a TV series. And for that genre, it's amazing.

His lyrics for the Magnetic Fields were funny, poetic and slightly maudlin. Very enjoyable.

Coraline is a great children's story, one that knows that children don't get scared by nearly the same things as adults, but still manages to be spooky. Wolves in the Walls is very much in the same vein.

American Gods might not be everyone's favourite novel, but it's done well both critically and financially, and has found success both as an academic work and as popular fiction, not something that happens often.

Smoke and Mirrors is honestly my second-favourite to his work on Sandman. There are two or three stories in there that I could just read over and over and over again.

Add on top of this breadth of work his many other short stories, poems, songs, introductions, essays, and his movie, and you have a remarkable body of work.

After the Beatles, McCartney was in Wings and then became a vegetarian, that was about it. Neil's branched out A LOT.

I'm not saying that Moore's "limited" himself to comics; it's an astoundingly broad field to work in, but Neil's more or less done the same thing, only in a lot of fields at once. Has it stretched his creativity and credulity beyond the point of tolerability at times? Well, that's a personal decision, really, but I don't think someone involved in as many very different projects as Neil can be said to be "coasting."

~ no snowflake ever falls in the wrong place ~
__________
AJGraeme
First Heretic of the Cheese Llama Cult