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knows there is no spoon
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I don't know how many of you out there have heard of Martin, (and I won't blame you if you haven't, I'm a lifelong bookworm and hadn't heard of him until very recently), but he is the author of an out of this world series called A Song of Fire and Ice that I'm reading right now. And I must say, my mind hasn't been blown like this since I picked up Brief Lives for the first time 3 years ago.

The series features vivid and deep characters, an intricate and constantly twisting plot, very realistic action and events, and that's just scratching the surface, because the best part about it all is that Martin seems to take great pleasure in surprising and tricking the reader and his/her expectations at every turn. Just for two examples, a major point of view character will be betrayed and killed by the end of the first book, and in third a character that seemed to be the scum of the earth and one of the most hateful in the story will be shown to have had very good reasons for his actions, and to have more than a spark or two of decency and honor as well. Things that start off black and white have a tendency to turn gray, and then every color of the spectrum.

Usually in describing this series, I say it's a mix of Tolkien and Dune. Then top it off with a few things like love, betrayal, honor, incest, family, growing up, intrigue, magic, dragons, sword fights, battles, life, death, conflicting religions, change and the like thrown in for fun. I know I'm coming off a bit like a ridiculous fanboy here, but I really like this series and recommend it to anyone.

One thing to note; the series is expected to have six books in it all told. So far three are out, with the fourth expected early next year, so those who are already awaiting the end to multiple series, may understandably feel a little leery about committing to another, but I for one would say it's worth the wait. From anybody else who is already reading the series, I more than welcome any discussion of plot points and the like and/or speculation on where the series is headed next, etc.

"His madness keeps him sane, doesn't it?"
"Do you think he is the only one?"
 
Posts: 8394 | Location: New York | Registered: July 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Martin is at the top of the Epic Fantasy game right now. His characters are humanly well drawn, they are not EEEEVIL or shiningly good.

He has hit the New York Times Bestseller list with each of the books thus far.

He had a string of successful Sceince Fiction and Horror novels in the '70s and '80s, went of to Hollywood to write for BEAUTY AND THE BEAST and work on the 80s version of THE TWILIGHT ZONE.

After reading Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn masterpiece, he realized High/Epic Fantasy could be done well and set forth his efforts to creating A Song of Ice and Fire.

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Posts: 94 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: March 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Doddering stodger
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on book 3 part 1-bit upset with the character shift in chapters.....I find a couple quite weak but hell it tells the story

 
Posts: 10241 | Location: sheffield, uk | Registered: August 28, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Martin, if I didnt already feel that Fiest was a god, this man is!

On part 3 of the series now (until rob buys the next one), and by God, How things change.
And thats what he's all about. Smacks you in the face, grabs you by the neck and punishes you for listening.
Bring the next one foward big man, we can take it.
 
Posts: 25 | Location: Liverpool, UK | Registered: July 18, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
knows there is no spoon
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quote:
Originally posted by Shathis Mactavish:
On part 3 of the series now (until rob buys the next one), and by God, How things change.



Yeah, I couldn't help thinking about how far you've come from the first book by the end of the third, (or in fact, how far you go in these stories just from the beggining of one book to the end), and what an exciting journey it is.

Well, since it seems that only those that have already read the boks and are fans are responding here, do you guys feel like discussing plot points or speculating on where the next book will go? For example who do you think will hold the Iron Throne when it's all said and done, what do you think the three-eyed crow in Bran's dream was, etc.

(Note: to thhose who haven't read the stories, there may well be many, many spoilers that come up here, so I suggest reading the books before continuing to read this discussion).

"His madness keeps him sane, doesn't it?"
"Do you think he is the only one?"
 
Posts: 8394 | Location: New York | Registered: July 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yahr!
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I read some of martin's sci-fi short storys a while back, not all of them are spectacular but some are really good. "A song for Leia" in particular (I think it won a nebula).
"Ice and Fire" is one of the best things ever to come out of the fantasy jenre. The characters, the plot, the breadth and depth of the world he created, Bloody amazing, definitely a winner.
I'm not sure where it's going at all, Danny will probably rule the southlands for a while, the dragons will need time to grow. In this Time war against the others will be waged while the realms are plunged into chaos (few people left with any real drive and ability who are after the Iron throne)
One thing though, If the hound really is dead I may well take my revenge on the author. smile

"we are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"
 
Posts: 16427 | Location: Haifa, Israel | Registered: August 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I love his books! I've been with the ice and fire series since it first came out, painfully waiting for the next installments, and overjoyed that the 4th comes out this fall!
yay!
He offers a very interesting perspective to a female reader... He's an odd fellow.

If you need me, me and neil'll be hanging out with the dream king. Neil says hi by the way...
 
Posts: 7 | Location: Fribourg, Switzerland | Registered: September 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ok, So were does he go in the 4th?

I could've sworn that Rob was going to marry Danny, and then they spank the Lanister butts all over.

That isnt going to happen is it ?
Arry might get in with Dany (who i do find quite arousing to be honest) and be her righ-hand-lady (since all the men around her seem to let her down). Add to that the 'Mother' aspect for young Arry.
And just when you thought Jon Snow was finally going to be able to claim Winterfell, he's elevated to Big Chief Wall man. We knew it was going to happen but hey, he deserves to take his venegence on those that killed the Starks.

Hope i havent spoilt anything for anyone.

Were do YOU see it?
 
Posts: 25 | Location: Liverpool, UK | Registered: July 18, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yahr!
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Originally posted by Shathis Mactavish:
Ok, So were does he go in the 4th?

I could've sworn that Rob was going to marry Danny, and then they spank the Lanister butts all over.

That isnt going to happen is it ?
Arry might get in with Dany (who i do find quite arousing to be honest) and be her righ-hand-lady (since all the men around her seem to let her down). Add to that the 'Mother' aspect for young Arry.
And just when you thought Jon Snow was finally going to be able to claim Winterfell, he's elevated to Big Chief Wall man. We knew it was going to happen but hey, he deserves to take his venegence on those that killed the Starks.

Hope i havent spoilt anything for anyone.

Were do YOU see it?


I think you're grasping onto trivialities, it's the others that are the problem, and fighting them will require the combined forces of the human protagonists (from sam to the kingslayer, everyone, though some more will die before that happens.

"we are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"
 
Posts: 16427 | Location: Haifa, Israel | Registered: August 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
knows there is no spoon
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Good to see the ball is starting to roll a little bit over here, lets see what I can do to keep it going.

I'm on another board, (Amazon), where there's been a lot of talk about Storm of Swords and speculation about the next book. I'll bring over some of the more realistic possibilities and see what you guys think.

TONS OF SPOILERS AND POTENTIAL SPOILERS!!!

There's been a lot of thought that Tyrion, fleeing Westeros, may meet up with Daenerys and become an advisor for her. (Nice little piece of possible evidence, in Clash of Kings, Dany saw several visions in the Palace of Dust that foreshadowed events and/or revelations in the next book. One of the visions that has not yet come to life was that she saw a white lion running through the Dothraki grasslands).

Many people feel that Coldhands, the creature that saved Sam in Book 3 and that Bran was going to meet, is Benjen Stark, and that he has become an agent of sorts for the Children of the Forest, a near mythical race that was the original inhabitants of Westeros. (Once again there may be evidence for this in the previous books; in the first book the Children of the Forest are twice mentioned as being crucial to the first struggle against the Others, and Bran, after just coming out of his coma, when he heard Benjen was missing, immediately shouted out, for no apparent reason, that the Children would save him).

Many people also believe that Jon Snow may be Lyanna's, (Ned Stark's long dead sister), son by Rhaegar, and that he and Dany will eventually become allies and/or lovers. (I'm not a big fan of this one, but it certainly is possible).

Some pet theories of mine include the possibility of the Tyrells planning a coup against the Lannisters, (after all, they're the only reason why the Lannisters hold the throne, and at least one of them was willing to conspire to poison Joffrey), and that Littlefinger will be a major player for a while, but his obsession with Catelyn that he has apparently transferred to Sansa will be his downfall.

Also, I believe that Daenerys will settle and try to rule her conquered territory for a while, but something will happen that will jolt her into action. Her first move may not be to Westeros though; I think she may pass through Asshai first. (The beliefs held in Asshai, like about the god R'hllor, and the characters from there like Thoros and Melisandre, have certainly become important and will I believe, be more fully fleshed out in the next book. Also, Dany was advised at one point in Clash of Kings to travel to Asshai, and I think she might do so before a "return" to Westeros).

So everyone, there are a few thoughts about how things may go. What do you think of them, and do you have any other theories on how things will go?

"His madness keeps him sane, doesn't it?"
"Do you think he is the only one?"
 
Posts: 8394 | Location: New York | Registered: July 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Mmmmmm, looks like i'm gonna have to re-read this stuff 'cos it seems like people have been over it with a fine tooth-comb.

Cold Hands as Benjen Stark ? More than likely, although it would be churlish of me to say i did think that but forgot to mention it.

Who's gonna be able to kill the Dragons? I can see at least one surviving, but theres no major magic players yet (maybe need to import Pug from Magician!) Lets feed The Imp to Drogon !
 
Posts: 25 | Location: Liverpool, UK | Registered: July 18, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
is a real, live Gremlin
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Couldn't resist raising this one from the dead.

I'm a big fan of the Jon Snow (new Treasury Secretary, US, by the way) as Rhaegar/Ned's sister's son. It just fits. Maybe too well for Martin to go through with. And, of course, explains Ned's secrecy about Jon's mother: Robert would likely have killed the boy.

I think what will be most interesting is how things play out between Dorne and the Lannisters. Remember, the Dornes have the elder Baratheon girl, who is Tommen's elder, and in their culture, the eldest child rules, be it male or female. It wouldn't surprise me if they claimed the throne for her.

Honestly, I'm liking Beric and Thoros and their marry band of knights-come-lately the best. Though nothing good ever comes of raising the dead (American Gods excepted).


Arya will train with the Faceless Men, and become one, and when her vengeance comes it will be sweet.

Now then. Back to the waiting.
 
Posts: 3347 | Location: Sidhe | Registered: December 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
knows there is no spoon
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Wow, I think this is the first time I've been over to this forum in almost a month, and look at what was waiting at the top of the page for me! Talk about timing . . .

First off, thank you Cuchullain for bringing this one back from the dead, and now, back to the discussion:

Personally I'm not sure about the theory of Jon being Lyanna and Rhaegar's son. If he is, he certainly didn't inherit the Valyrian looks, and as you said, it seems a little pat for Martin and the way he has handled the series thus far. (Although, on the flip side of that, Martin said he only plans for the series to go for 5 or 6 books, so this is the point where many of the plot threads would begin weaving themselves together).

Actually, I think watching the Lannisters and the interactions with all their "allies" is going to be intersting. You have Dorne which seems to like stirring up trouble, and who may crown Myrcella, and then, as I said before, I think th Tyrells might decide to take the Lannisters out. Consider: it was the Tyrells who saved the Lannisters from defeat at Stannis' hands, it was the Tyrells that brought food and peace back to the mob in King's Landing that was ready to rise up against the Lannisters, it is the might of the Tyrells that allowed the Lannisters to keep their grip on the throne, and now the lord Tywin is dead, there isn't any way the Lannisters can outscheme or outmanouver their opponets in the political sphere. So the Tyrells have the money, the power, armies untouched by war, the goodwill of the people, and the Lannisters are pretty much dependant on them to hold onto power. If the Tyrells do anything, the Lannisters would be finished for good.

Beric and Thoros are great characters, and their whole band made for good reading in Storm of Swords. That's another place where it will be interesting to see how things go, as they seem to be turning to slightly more ruthless and less honorable tactics at the end of Storm of Swords. What I really would like to see, though, would be a meeting between Thoros and Melisandre, (Stannis' witch/advisor), something just tells me that something BIG would happen if that ever came about.

I can only guess about where Arya is going to wind up next, because so much that I wouldn't have guessed has already happened to her.

Now some food for thought; who or what is the 3 eyed crow? How will Daenerys react when she learns the whole truth about her father? Who are the people can she trust, and who are the ones who will betray her according to the prophecy the Undying gave her? What will happen to Sansa, seemingly caught in Littlefinger's clutches with nowehere to go? God, but I'm looking forward to the next book!

"His madness keeps him sane, doesn't it?"
"Do you think he is the only one?"
 
Posts: 8394 | Location: New York | Registered: July 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've got the books for "A Song Of Ice And Fire" but have not read them yet.

George wrote "Fevre Dream", a great novel with vampires set on a river boat.

I'm really enjoyed "Wild Cards", an alternate history series developed & written by George and other authors.
 
Posts: 146 | Location: Australia | Registered: December 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi there I'm a newcomer on that website.

Here, listen, that's fairly simple : I read Heroic Fantasy and Sword and Sorcery since I'm a child: Have read Tolkien, Howard, Moorccock, Leiber, Eddings, Williams, Jordan, etc...

A game of thrones - a song of Ice and Fire (is it the right name ? Le Trône de Fer in french) is the very very best Heroic Fantasy novel I 've ever read. Its epic, grandiose, with interessant characters, written in an original way with chapters written in the point of view of several major characters from differents sides, etc...

The best scene I've ever read is the scene where Daenerys free the city with the army of fanatics, refusing to abandon her dragon and shouting "Drakarys"...that was so GREAT !!!

My favourite pure fantasy novels. As to fantastic / SF novels more generally speaking, my favourite novel would still be the cycle of Amber by zelazny.

Plague for devils in the song of the blade.
 
Posts: 19 | Location: France | Registered: February 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bump.

Just wanted to say, I've been a GRRM fan longer than I've been a Gaiman fan. GRRM was a very successful SF writer during the '70s and '80s, and also edited a shared-world anthology of superheroes written by SF writers called Wild Cards, which was popular. Then, during the mid and late '80s, he began writing for television, most notably for Beauty and the Beast and the (then) New Twilight Zone, as well as a produced, but never aired pilot for a show called Doorways.

I was happy as a clam and did a happy dance right there in the store when Game of Kings landed, because it had been nearly a decade since I'd seen a novel with his name on it. And the fact that he'd moved over from SF/Horror writing into Fantasy was amazing. That he makes it feel like historical writing at the same time makes it jaw-dropping.

If you're stuck, waiting for A Feast For Crows, the other author I'd recommend with a similar feel is not fantasy, but historical: Dorothy Dunnett. The Lymond Chronicles have the same high level of court intrigue, oblique dialogue, and high romance (used in its proper literary sense). First book: The Game of Kings.
 
Posts: 54 | Location: San Diego, CA, USA | Registered: June 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
is a real, live Gremlin
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UPDATE:

There is no update.

Hey, Ronin, what say you and I find out where he lives and head over to his place to offer a little encouragement?

I'll bring the encouraging pillow-case full of doorknobs, you bring the bicycle chain of encouragement.

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Posts: 3347 | Location: Sidhe | Registered: December 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
knows there is no spoon
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Nah, afterall, he's still doing a hell of a let better than Robert Jordan!

~
James

Larger than life is the perfect size
 
Posts: 8394 | Location: New York | Registered: July 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well, in terms of quality, maybe. But Jordan has put out two more volumes since my last post. I think when Martin's last ASoIaF volume came out it read like current events.

This next one better deliver, and I don't mean 'Jon is a Targaryen' delivery, because everyone and their mother has figured that one out. I want Arya training to be a faceless man, I want boatloads of Beric and Thoros (love them - populist undead/necromancer knights), I want Jaime turning against his family, I want Tyrion raising an army, I want Dorne plots by the barrel (and I want them to claim the throne from the Lannister girl, whom they're currently holding, if I remember right). And I want at least ten plot twists that I can't possibly want in any specific way because I could never have anticipated them.

Also, I either want Sansa to toughen up or die. My prediction is that she meets up with Brienne (that's the woman knight, right? It's been so long) and gets taken under-wing. I hope. Something, please.

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Posts: 3347 | Location: Sidhe | Registered: December 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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and Catelyn ripping apart the Freys....

god i hate waiting for books to come out....

-I.

"Even then I have nothing against life.
I know well the grass blades you mention,
the furniture you have placed under the sun." -Anne Sexton
 
Posts: 1990 | Location: MPLS, MN, USA | Registered: December 27, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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