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Caveat, the only Wolfe I've read are books 2, 3, and 4 of the New Sun series, and that Sandman short story in an anthology somewhere.

Wolfe has a dry, even tone that's nice, and an admirably clever way with language, but still, what am I missing? Other writers heap exorbitant praise on Wolfe, but I don't get it. Where's the passion, the drama, the fireworks?
 
Posts: 2290 | Location: Manila | Registered: October 15, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Elah Adonijai
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To be honest, I started reading Gene Wolfe because Neil said his Book of the New Sun was his favorite contemporary sci-fi series. I've read that series and am now reading the Urth of the New Sun right now, and have the Knight on my bookshelf at home.

I really like Wolfe, but it's difficult to explain why. Like you said, Zoneseek, his writing is clever and even, but there aren't a lot of fireworks or passion. There is tons of drama in the Shadow of the Torturer, the first book of the series. And it seems all the books contain moral dilemnas, but do so without banging you over the head. Perhaps that's why other writers (like Neil and Ursula Le Guinn) appreciate him. It seems like Wolfe lets you try and figure a lot of stuff out for yourself instead of just spelling it out for you. (I know I've said it before, but I maintain someone should write some kind of companion to these books.)

I'm curious to hear what other people think, as well.


____________________________________________________________________
"Patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer i beg to submit that it is the first." - Ambrose Bierce
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A Good Scoundrel isn't Hard to Find
 
Posts: 2179 | Location: Hiding in the secret compartments of Whittier, CA | Registered: July 08, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Fantasy writers, note: Gene Wolfe, China Mieville, and Iain M. Banks are very good at inventing words. Where a crude, ham-handed writer would have written "Demon Summoner," Mieville comes up with the neat, compact, uncapitalized "karcist."
 
Posts: 2290 | Location: Manila | Registered: October 15, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I'm on the Sword of the Lictor now. I'm expecting some major revelations right about now. This is that kind of story, isn't it?

I'm enjoying it. Point of view is interesting. It seems like it starts out pure high fantasy then sci-fi elements start to invade the story.
 
Posts: 49 | Registered: January 20, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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incutooltone currently has 42 posts Smile

Writers like Neil, Michael Swanwick, etc, keep saying that Wolfe will rock my world, and I'm still waiting. Here's Severian, who has an interesting job (which isn't explored as much as I'd like) and a cool sword. Stuff happens to him. So yeah, it's good, but not great.

I've been reading a lot of really good authors lately: M. John Harrison, Iain M. Banks, Pratchett. These guys write stories that linger in my mind and invade my dreams, but the New Sun books don't do that for me.

Well, Severian's sword Terminus Est is awesome. Someone should make a replica of it, though that probably wouldn't have the mercury reservoir.

One thing I like is that Wolfe'e writing works as stand-alone. An ordinary person in a locked room can read a Wolfe story and it'll make sense, but an alert man will get more out of it. Upon reading the word "cacogen," the "caco" bit tells me right off that this is something I wouldn't want to come across on a dark night.
 
Posts: 2290 | Location: Manila | Registered: October 15, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I have a love-hate relationship with Gene Wolfe. Some of the stuff he writes is allright and for some of it I can't wait to be done with it. I read one novel, There Are Doors, and I liked it. In Innocents Aboard I only liked about a third of the short stories and suffered through the rest of them. I simply hated the one he did for the Sandman collection. I can't really explain what works and what doesn't for me.

There are undoubtly a lot of things in common between him and Neil, especially in the themes.
 
Posts: 341 | Location: Indiana, US | Registered: January 12, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Elah Adonijai
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Zoneseek, did you read Shadow of the Torturer? If I remember correctly, that one went into a lot of detail about his job as a torturer's apprentice (I think the first 1/2 of the book).


____________________________________________________________________
"Patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer i beg to submit that it is the first." - Ambrose Bierce
----------------------
A Good Scoundrel isn't Hard to Find
 
Posts: 2179 | Location: Hiding in the secret compartments of Whittier, CA | Registered: July 08, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Nope, don't have Shadow of the Torturer. You'd be surprised how much that bugs me.

How do you torture an obsessive collector? Leave him one shy of the complete set.
 
Posts: 2290 | Location: Manila | Registered: October 15, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Elah Adonijai
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Yeah, I'll say. You're a stronger, more determined, braver dude than I. How the hell did you stuck with Wolfe so long into the series without reading that one!


____________________________________________________________________
"Patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer i beg to submit that it is the first." - Ambrose Bierce
----------------------
A Good Scoundrel isn't Hard to Find
 
Posts: 2179 | Location: Hiding in the secret compartments of Whittier, CA | Registered: July 08, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I did order it, but God knows how long that'll take.
 
Posts: 2290 | Location: Manila | Registered: October 15, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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So Wolfe seems to be one of those writers who are resistant to quotation. Anyone want to give me a quote or passage that shows Wolfe's greatness?
 
Posts: 2290 | Location: Manila | Registered: October 15, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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First an introduction from NG, here
quote:
NG: “Is feedback important to you? I thought the Washington Post article made some very sensible points. It said, ‘This is how good Gene Wolfe is, and this is why you haven’t heard of him.’ One point was that you make no effort in your fiction to be user-friendly.”
GW: “What would I do that I don’t do, if I were being user-friendly?”
NG: “It goes back to that line I’ve been using ever since I read it in a letter where you defined good literature: ‘My definition of good literature is that which can be read by an educated reader, and reread with increased pleasure.’ While ‘user-friendly’ may have been the wrong word, there is a level on which a lot of fiction these days is expected to give everything up first time to somebody, whether he knows something about the subject or not. You do not do that.”
GW: “Phooey! I don’t want to write that kind of thing. Rats! I don’t like it and it would bore me to write it and I’m not gonna write it. And besides, I don’t know everything to give it up. You’re going to see things in there that I don’t see consciously. I like those things.”
NG: “I take enormous pleasure in the fact that people are still arguing about the first four in the ‘Book of the New Sun’ sequence to this day. ‘Was the Autarch Severian’s mother?’ ‘Is the Clute theory valid?’ ‘Oh, we’ve got another Australian theory....’ You have these dueling theorists, pointing to the text and trying to second- and third- and outguess.”
GW: “Yeah, but the thing is, too often people want me to go in and settle their argument. That’s exactly what I should not do. I am dealing from this position of presumed expertise. We don’t have a level playing field. If Arthur Conan Doyle had gone in and settled all this ‘Holmes’ stuff, there would be no Baker Street Irregulars today, yet people have made whole hobbies out of being Baker Street Irregulars — why shouldn’t they? There’s no sacredness to the text.”


One of the problems with Wolfe is that you need a big chunk of text to really catch the drift. So this will be long...

quote:
Pasicrates answered, "We give our might toLeonidas, just as might was offered to Patroklos. The winner will complete the sacrifice."
When we closed again, his strength was twice what it had been . For what seemed a whole night we strove together, but I could not throw him, nor could he throw me.
There came a moment when my face was to the fire, and he met my gaze. The lion roared again, nearer now, and loud as a war horn over the shouting of the men from Rope. Pasicrates stiffened. "There's a lion in your eyes," he gasped.
"And a boy in yours," I told him; and lifting him over my head, I carried him away from the altar until the waves licked at my ankles, and I cast him into the sea. The lion roared a third time. I have not heard it since.

Soldier of the Mist

quote:
It had been nearly a moth since the old bawdy-house piano had begun to repair him. It had found him in the barn in which it had lived in retirement for eighty years; and it had cottoned to him from the beginning, seeing in him a man in ruins, to be sure, yet a salvageable man and one well worth saving. I will make you whole, it had promised. Nor had that solemn promise been a falsification or an exaggeration, though the old pianowas capableof both and not unaccustomed to either-had not been unaccustomed to them, that is to say,many years ago when it had pursued an active career.

Flash Company, in Strange Travellers

quote:
I shall not bore you with a catalog of her virtues and beauties; you would have to see her and hold her to judge her justly. Her bitter blade was an ell in length, straight and square-pointed as such a sword's should be. Man-edge and woman-edge could part a hair to within a span of the guard, which was of thick silver with a carven head at either end. Her grip was onyx bound with silver bands, two spans long and terminated with an opal. Art had been lavished on her; but it is the function of art to render attractive and significant those things that without it would not be so, and so art had nothing to give her. The words Terminus Est had been engraved upon her blade in curious and beautiful letters, and I had learned enough of ancient languages since leaving the Atrium of Time to know that they meant This is the Line of Division.

The Shadow of the Torturer

Not necessarily the best, just three I like after a quick search.


Know, not think it
 
Posts: 29 | Location: I am behind the WGB | Registered: June 14, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Hello everybody! I am new here and this is my first post. I saw this thread about one of my favorite authors and thought I would begin here. First off, there is no way you can possibly understand or fully appreciate and enjoy The Book of the New Sun if you have not read TSotT (Book One) first. For me, upon first reading it (my first Wolfe experience as well) I didn't like it. I found it too dense and felt kind of like nothing was happening. About halfway through, I put the book down for about six months. Every board I visited, it seemed someone there was raving about how GREAT New Sun was, so finally I decided to give it another shot and started over from the beginning--and I absolutely fell in love with it the second time around. I also better understood the sections I had read before. I went on to finish the series as well as Urth of the New Sun. I have re-read the entire series twice to date and have made new discoveries each time. Wolfe is that good. After New Sun, I went and bought every book Wolfe has written, and now he is at the top of my favorite author list right next to Jack Vance. My point is this: do try to finish the series. If you don't, you will have missed out on one of the best SF/Fantasy series there ever was.


...But, that's just my $.02


John Denver was an aviation marvel!
 
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