Neil Gaiman www.NeilgaimanBoard.com www.NeilgaimanBoard.com The World's End Other Writers Movies that were better than the books tey were based on
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Starving artist - well, not starving, but if you happen to have an extra biscuit lying around . . . Member  |
No, it can't, there wasn't an oil, and nobody faked evidence to go to war. There weren't any people there by the time of the first French settlement in the 17th century. There is evidence of some Stone Age type visits, but nothing more. The reason it was colonised was because it was a good base for ships to re-water. The colonial back and forth of France, Spain and Britain is well documented. It was settled in 1833, accepted as a British possession by all concerned until the Argentine government developed an irrational desire for sheep. Those islands are not self sufficient, by the way. But the inhabitants have been British since 1833, so the UK government upholds its responsibilities. When people vote overwhelmingly for the status quo it is considered polite to follow their wishes. I'm not sure what your problem with that is.
That's not what I was taught in school. The word 'war' came up quite often.
You don't actually know anything about colonial history, do you? Fair warning, I'm doing my PhD on the Victorian era, and I can go all day about this should you wish to remedy this problem.
And again with the lack of a grasp of history. The British Empire developed through the British trade and mercenary involvement across India being gradually brought under government control and eventually forming an Imperial possession by default. It is much more complex than 'swiping land'.
I have no idea what you're talking about with Panama, Britain never had any control over it. Hong Kong became a British possession by treaty with the Chinese government after the Opium War in the 1840s, switching to a 99-year lease in 1898, and was handed back to China at the end of that period. Not hard.
Well what are you reading then? Because my opinion is unchanged, you do not know your history, at least as it relates to Britain. You didn't fall down in interpretation, you fell down on facts. For example, Britain never owned Panama!
That's nice for them, I'm sure. Well then you should phrase yourself so that you don't come off as a singularly jingoistic one then. We can only draw conclusions from what you give us. And it matters because it is easier to have a discussion with someone if we know roughly where they're from and can tailor our expectations of mutual comprehension to fit.
Well I happen to think that my family members in the military are far too special for you to dismiss the conflict which shaped their careers and families as a joke. I didn't use them to justify any war. I think everyone except Argentina has been quite explicit about their invasion of the Falklands being unjustifiable.
Only thing they had in '45 that they didn't have before was the atom bomb, and nobody ever classed that as conventional warfare. Milage may vary, obviously, but European view has always been that WW1 is pretty much the starting point of 'modern warfare'. And for the love of God, learn to use the space bar. ------------------------------ You are a Leprechaun. I'm not even sure what you are. Whiskey-soaked reports from your baffling Isle of Ire raise more questions than they answer. Are you a dwarf? Where's your pickax? If you're an elf, why don't you cobble? You'd think with all your gold, you could invest in some land, perhaps a title, and improve your station. Instead, you hide it in meteorologically-determined locations. You're getting killed on inflation, little friend! |
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is hogging the Comfy Chair Member  |
Mary, I take my hat off to your infinite patience, as well as to your lucid explanations.
*********************** There once was a bard of Hong Kong Who thought limericks were too long. - Gerard Benson. |
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rodentia extraordinarinus Member  |
ETA: Mary, you are ace
 Curse my slow typing!LFT, please learn to type. Please. I am begging you, it is so hard to read anything you say because even if the sentences made sense, the punctuation is so awful it's painful to read.
Well, these two are mutually exclusive for a start. If you'd read any history you'd know when the Modern period started, and you certainly wouldn't put 1945 as the start of contemporary warfare. And if you'd actually read anything you'd know that it's important to get the names of periods right, so that everyone doesn't have to decode what you're saying. RE: the American military being relevant - the American War of Independence had remarkably little effect on the outside world. Really it's biggest effect was to make the British embarassed and everyone else crack down on their colonies. But the American military were not directly having an effect anywhere else - it was for the most part an internal thing. Other European countries being involved wasn't as an result of the military being relevant, and it didn't make it become more so. The American military didn't become relevant in world affairs until the First World War, and didn't seriously break it's isolationist policy until the Second. No one in this thread has argued that the British haven't done bad things in other coutries! No one has said that, no one in the world thinks it. (And for the record, most British soldiers of the 20th Century did NOT join the armed forces of their own free will.) But that's not relevant to this debate, I just thought you should know before you start sounding off about things you have barely a basic knowledge of. Sighting examples which began when not only the British, but just about everyone with a big enough boat in Europe were taking colonies is not a valid comparison to actions taken by any country today. If you don't know a lot of history please don't just try and throw all the half-facts you do know at us regardless of relevance. It's not going to impress anyone. You are on a board full of historians, one of whom is the most knowledgeable historian of my age I know. *** You made a sweeping generalisation military people were 'cardboard'. It's valid, therefore, for people to sight personal examples of military people they know who are not. I also like how you manage to bring casually mention your grandfather and step-uncle in the same breath as saying they are 'too special' for this debate. 
The Falklands is entirely different from Africa. The entire population wanted to stay British, Britain was still in soverignty over the islands, and the population are not ethnically South American. It's not comparable to somewhere like Zimbabwe, where the white farmers are Zimbabwean citizens, and Zimbabwe is an independent state. Similarly, when colonialism was still happening it was the European country controlling the entire resources and government.. The British having control of some islands one country has a claim over is not the same as controlling a whole country and it's resources. The situation in Africa is/was just so different from the Falklands it makes my mind boggle how you even made the connection. Not to mention the fact that the regime in Argentina was not exactly the nicest. But regardless, that was only sighted origionally as an example of an British war, independent of America, so unless you have any evidence that it was not, there's no point talking about it any further.
Um... you know Britain's in that war too, don't you? As well as a lot of other countries. Quick points: Again, the only British example you can think of, Hong Kong, happened many over a century ago. The UK didn't seem to have anything to do with the Panama Canal, so I'll ignore that! In any case, they can't be compared to the Iraq War or anything else contemporary in this context. Please try for something more relevant. The reason people are telling you that you don't know your history is because you don't. Either you don't know the facts, or when you do know them you are utterly incapable of interpreting or analysing them to even the level I would expect from a 13-year-old. You also find difficulty in communicating even this mash of information, and I serously find it hard to decide if you're just here to pick a fight, or if you are genuinely that ill-informed. ____________________________________________________ tiny ball of rage. hilarious, condensed rage - Snazz I never really lost my virginity... it just sort of eventually wore off - Chris Addison Um... I'm thinking that a lot of my internal conflict and malaise comes from the tension between the life I ACTUALLY want to live, and the stories I'd love to be able to tell? - T-Rex, qwantz.com |
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always wears a tie - just not around his neck Member  |
I just have to say:
Go Domi, Go Domi, Go Domi (While dancing) Now that was awesomesauce! Head of internal security of the Realm of Unproductivity and Procrastination, Catnip Master in the order of the Pineapple. |
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has been eaten by a grue. Member |
okay. Domi already kinda mentioned this one, but seriously. nobody brought up their friends and family in the military by way of justifying a war. you said: and we said, "that's bullshit." because it is. I have yet to meet someone in the armed forces who would even vaguely resemble a zombie. and I know...at least 15 people who are now or have been in the military. and Graff is military. so I think he'd know. again, had absolutely nothing to do with the justification of any war whatsoever. it was just offensive to me, as there are people I care very deeply about currently in combat, and I won't sit back quietly when you tell me that they have ceased to be fully functional human beings. and, as yet another historian hanging around the board...I will just say that Mary and Domi are absolutely right, and your facts, not to mention your analysis, are in dire need of correction. ~ We're just babies making up a game, if you're right. But...babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your real world hollow. That's why I'm going to stand by the play-world. ~ Elite Special Force Procrastinator, trained in High Arts of Extended Coffee Breaks and Master Linguist of the Water Cooler Conversation |
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Member |
okay straight and narrow...one mo' time
imperial possession by default vs. white collar crime you say pota-toe i say pota-ta nobody faked evidence?this it seems can be debated and still to this day is so let's not put this in your list of things you know to be true. oh and haiti at war with the u.s. or vice versa and your school's information have made me come to this point of, it is you that is grossly mis-informed.which is why we can no longer speak of the topic of history again.solely because if you believe what you say there's no telling what else kind of spin you can come up with...so let's part our ways here shall we. thank you marvinmarymac but as i don't have time to prove in an equation of logic(that was so cool dweller by the way) that this debate will lead to nowhere under the previous statements and support of which being..your school. ah domi , domi, domi, atom bomb not being considered the birth of modern conventional warfare puts us to an end too..along with the statement the american revolution had little affect on the outside world. really? that's like saying the snowflake that landed and tumbled down the hill-side gathering snow in an avalanche-like slide had no affect on the small time in it's path. say what you want but remember that you said THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION HAD LITTLE AFFECT ON THE OUTSIDE WORLD.also why don't you tell that to IRAQ. and i must include an editor note; i meant the occupation of panama canal by the u.s.. i'm sorry i was not more clear ,i was talking about u.s. and britian in that paragraph. now i would like to carry on with people that are not conviently ommitting some facts or bending truths of which myself can be gulity , to be fair,so i suggest to start a thread or direct to the thread that involves history and jigoism(is it?). we don't want to fight but by JINGO if we do we've got the ships we've got the men we've got the money too. 1870's english song on the side bar the word spread-eaglism (haha)is the american counterpart to JINGOISM. THIS goes out to dweller,please start a thread on comics and art.i promise to spend most of my time there as long as you reply every once in a while.your taste in artist in this medium is most interesting in a good way. also what do you think of mobieus and ferzetta(and his unofficial student simon bisley)? and now back to your regularly stations broadcast of what movies are better than their books. i watched butch cassidy and the sundance kid again the 25th anniv. there is an interesting bit with the writer goldman.who was a novelist for ten years before he wrote this screenplay(at princeton i believe). he made a good point being i didn't want to have to write about the whole description of a horse as i could do a screenplay and people would see the hosre and say 'well that's a horse and it's this color and it's this big and so on....what i'm getting at dweller is i see what you mean sbout clancy now. he is probably a better screenwriter than a writer in these regards. and one last jab at MR.FREEMAN, chris nolan did not write batman begins it was written by a DAVID GOYER. of course nolan's name is attached to the screeplay like 99 percent of all directors in the movie biz.thought you should know that. i'm not trying to be rude with all this but i can not ask in a more polite way to begin a thread for history and i'm there but i promise you i will not talk history in this thread again. and please think about that art in comics thread dweller , i know you would probably say start it yourself but i wish to mainly hear your thoiughts ,being that you are the only one that has knowledge and taste that i find agreeable....that didn't come out right at all! and again i will not respond to any history talk on this thread again so some of you got that going for you. |
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I believe I started a thread asking the many historians and history enthusiasts on the board to suggest reading material for those ill-informed about history. You might find it useful. I'd pay particular attention to Domi's post regarding Horrible Histories.
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rodentia extraordinarinus Member |
Actually the UK government all but admitted it.
No one is convienently ommitting anything - we are responding to your innacuracies and sweeping statements. We can't be held responsible for your ignorance and inability to grasp even the basic level of interpretation needed.
No, it is not the start of modern warfare, a) because it's only been used twice, and b) becasue the ways we are fighting wars have been in a state of gradual change since the actual modern period. The atom bomb did not form such a great turning point in terms of military affais as was thought at the time. The ways wars are fought on the ground were not directly affected by it.
We were talking about the American military, not the American revolution itself. If you can't make that distinction then I can't be bothered expalining it to you. An even if you were right, and the American military in the revolution had an effect, well, then it's best part of 200 years before it ever effects anything again, so it's a flimsy point.
Well, that doesn't say mcuh for your communitation skills.
You haven't been. You don't know any history. You don't know how to argue academically, you don't know how to analyse and you don't know how to write. You are talking to people here who have actually studied history to degree level and beyond. Hell, even people who'd dropped out of high school would be capable of better arguments. I can only assume due to your level of knowledge and skills that you have not studied history at any level. Mary's doing her PhD for heavan's sake. Do you really think that your analysis is likely to be better than hers? Well, let me tell you for free - it isn't. It's very convinient for you to say "boo, I'm not playing anymore!" as soon as you find arguments you can't answer (not that you could adequately answer any of the others, mind), but that just shows how pathetic your side of the 'debate' (I usually think of a debate as between equals, so it hardly seems the right word here) is. I can am no clearer on whether you actually believe anything you say (which, again, makes my mind boggle) or if you're just saying it to get a rise out of us. It's... no, really, I can't decide. ____________________________________________________ tiny ball of rage. hilarious, condensed rage - Snazz I never really lost my virginity... it just sort of eventually wore off - Chris Addison Um... I'm thinking that a lot of my internal conflict and malaise comes from the tension between the life I ACTUALLY want to live, and the stories I'd love to be able to tell? - T-Rex, qwantz.com |
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has no member title Member  |
Does anyone know whether the book "Last Unicorn" is really so much worse than the movie?
I was told not to try it. __ The brickchewing, camera flaunting restroom saint formerly known as Babylon the Bride |
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Miss Kitty Fantastico Member  |
I have a very biased opinion of the book, Noodle Girl, but I adore it. It sometimes seems almost like poetry (and there's also a lot of rhyming-type poetry in there as well) But then again, I don't think the movie sucked at all.
I would send you my extra copy, but I foisted it off on a friend.  I would have thought the end of the world is everyone's responsibility, wouldn't you? ~Death in Thief of Time Minister of Kraftwerk in the Realm of U & P, Order of the Pineapple with frond for advancement in Nap studies. |
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is part of the international oatmeal conspiracy Member  |
hee. i loved the movie as a kid and then watched it as an adult and went WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?!
heee. ahhh, childhood we were sooo dumb. High Ranking Official of the Realm of Unproductivity and Procrastination, Dean of the UUP, First Class member of the order of the Pineapple. scruffy ambulating reanimated hypothetical vegetarian leigonairre of the undead. ~ Cav Look, I've got a cape and a tendency towards violence. It does not make me a superhero! ~ Domitella |
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Miss Kitty Fantastico Member |
I must be weird, I still love the movie. but only if I'm really bored and it's a rainy/wintry day and I can't think of anything to do. Usually I just re-read the book, 'cos I prefer books.
I would have thought the end of the world is everyone's responsibility, wouldn't you? ~Death in Thief of Time Minister of Kraftwerk in the Realm of U & P, Order of the Pineapple with frond for advancement in Nap studies. |
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has no member title Member |
ha, well that does make me want to try it. Thanks, you two.
__ The brickchewing, camera flaunting restroom saint formerly known as Babylon the Bride |
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Surprise Inspector Member  |
i applaud you, domi.
the only films that i've seen where i've read the book as well, i think the book is better, if only because it contains more completeness (can't think of the right word for that). actually, i have one exception to that, and the book is actually a short story, and it's been mentioned before: The Shawshank Redemption. bloody good movie. "Are you a princess? I said & she said I'm much more than a princess, but you don't have a name for it yet here on earth." -Brian Andreas Limertilly: A pagan deity forgotten by man and therefore banished to the realms of memory and darkness now remembered by a young girl in downtown L.A. in the form of a dream and therefore freed to reap your revenge on the people who discarded you, thereby forcing said girl to learn to use her innate yet awesome powers as a soothsayer to gather forces of the Earth to defy you and once more banish you to your cold, cold prisoooooon |
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Member |
I thought Shawshank was a good film, then I saw Cool Hand Luke. Way, waaaay better.
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has been eaten by a grue. Member |
Cool Hand Luke is one of my favorites. I can't watch it often, because it's too much, but it is brilliant.
~ We're just babies making up a game, if you're right. But...babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your real world hollow. That's why I'm going to stand by the play-world. ~ Elite Special Force Procrastinator, trained in High Arts of Extended Coffee Breaks and Master Linguist of the Water Cooler Conversation |
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rodentia extraordinarinus Member |
I need to read The Lord of the Rings again now I'm not, well, 13, and see if I still think the movies are better...
____________________________________________________ tiny ball of rage. hilarious, condensed rage - Snazz I never really lost my virginity... it just sort of eventually wore off - Chris Addison Um... I'm thinking that a lot of my internal conflict and malaise comes from the tension between the life I ACTUALLY want to live, and the stories I'd love to be able to tell? - T-Rex, qwantz.com |
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Starving artist - well, not starving, but if you happen to have an extra biscuit lying around . . . Member |
I'd still recommend skipping the poems and songs though.
------------------------------ You are a Leprechaun. I'm not even sure what you are. Whiskey-soaked reports from your baffling Isle of Ire raise more questions than they answer. Are you a dwarf? Where's your pickax? If you're an elf, why don't you cobble? You'd think with all your gold, you could invest in some land, perhaps a title, and improve your station. Instead, you hide it in meteorologically-determined locations. You're getting killed on inflation, little friend! |
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