Neil Gaiman www.NeilgaimanBoard.com www.NeilgaimanBoard.com The World's End Other Writers How to Read the Bible
www.NeilgaimanBoard.com www.NeilgaimanBoard.com The World's End Other Writers How to Read the BiblePage 1 2
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Companion to owls Member  |
I just stumble dinto this review:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/16/books/review/Plotz-t....alink&pagewanted=all It looks like a fascinating book, but then again so many 'debunking' books do... I wonder if anyone here has read this or has any opinions about it (and I thought some of your posters would be interested anyway).  |
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Administrator/Colporteur Member  |
Definitely interested! I'll have to see if a local library has picked it up.
__________ AJGraeme "You see, I have a policy about honesty and ass-kicking: if you ask for it, I have to let you have it." -Taylor Mali "Science is the foot that kicks magic square in the nuts." -Scratch Fury |
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Companion to owls Member |
I thought you'd be -I actually thought of you when you read the article and hoped you'd have more information on the book
 It looks like a genuine attempt at understanding the Bible, as a book, which is interesting. I'll wait till you locate it and review it |
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Assistant *fwap*er Member  |
I am also interested in this, Clover. It seems to be how I've always viewed the bible - more as fiction than non-fiction. Or at least based on actual events.
I've tried reading the bible in this way, but could never really get through the begats. I've read some of the individual stories in bible school when I was little. And then the ones that musicals are based on (Joseph and Godspell.) ******************************** The only really sane person in there is Igor, and possibly the turnip. And I'm not so sure about the turnip. ~~ Terry Pratchett |
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Administrator/Colporteur Member |
Oh, heavens, don't start with the books with the begats. They do have a lot of the juiciest stuff, but if you want the real gore with considerably fewer lists of people and places, start with Judges, then move on to I and II Kings and I and II Chronicles. The latter bogs down in lists at times (I'm fascinated by them, once I figure out how to properly disassemble them, but it's not a hobby for the casual reader), but there's some great stuff in there. You'll spot whole chunks of old A-Team plots, for one.
__________ AJGraeme "You see, I have a policy about honesty and ass-kicking: if you ask for it, I have to let you have it." -Taylor Mali "Science is the foot that kicks magic square in the nuts." -Scratch Fury |
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Assistant *fwap*er Member |
Good to know. Thanks, Dweller.
 ******************************** The only really sane person in there is Igor, and possibly the turnip. And I'm not so sure about the turnip. ~~ Terry Pratchett |
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is hogging the Comfy Chair Member  |
This is possibly the first thing I've read for thirty years that has made me want to voluntarily pick up a bible! *********************** There once was a bard of Hong Kong Who thought limericks were too long. - Gerard Benson. |
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Administrator/Colporteur Member |
*grins*
Regardless of your perception of the Bible's historical accuracy, it is one of the fundamental pieces of literature in Western culture even today. No local libraries have it. Checking around with friends. __________ AJGraeme "You see, I have a policy about honesty and ass-kicking: if you ask for it, I have to let you have it." -Taylor Mali "Science is the foot that kicks magic square in the nuts." -Scratch Fury |
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Assistant *fwap*er Member |
My mother may have some of our old bibles from CCD stuck in the basement somewhere. I never understood why they gave us new ones every year. Not like they've changed much lately.
******************************** The only really sane person in there is Igor, and possibly the turnip. And I'm not so sure about the turnip. ~~ Terry Pratchett |
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Member |
Giabow, I'm slightly jealous that your CCD gave you Bibles every year. We just got workbooks.
Myself, I'm partial to the Song of Songs. And the Kugel book looks really interesting. I'll have to borrow it from my bookstore. It's like loitering, but mean. -- Jon Stewart on lurking |
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Member |
In Heinlein's Orphans of the Sky, a far-future human culture venerates their worldship's technical manuals as sacred texts. When a young man is baffled by things like "Insert Tab A into Slot B," the priests go oh well, you shouldn't take it literally, it's allegorical for man's relationship to woman or somesuch.
I forget whether it was Nietzsche or Bertrand Russell who said that one should read the Bible with gloves on. I like reading Revelation as straight sf. No allegories, no symbols, but real giant locusts and things with lots of eyeballs. Very Lovecraftian. And I keep coming back to Ecclesiastes, because secular humanism needs to have a reply for the Preacher's despair. Edit, this just in: LOLspeak Bible.
I an I dig it, mon. This message has been edited. Last edited by: ZoneSeek, |
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Great wyrm of Toronto Member  |
The Bible is a dirty book.
I mean, watching the action of Jacob alone with two wives, and a maidservant is just priceless. Somehow I don't think they'll be including that in a movie anytime soon, even now. I read that part and I was just like ... wow. Dirty dirty book. Genesis is cool though because of so much kind of unsaid in it. Genesis is my favourite part of the Bible, and I haven't even finished all of it yet. I come back to it from time to time.______________________________ Do not leave me with a bowl of anything for an extended period of time. |
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Goofy Beast Member  |
One thing I told all of the students I got interested in the bible (well, you can't really study English literature without at least a basic idea of the book) is this: don't read everything in there as if it's supposed to be virtuous. Just because it's the bible doesn't mean that all of the protagonists are good guys. In fact, many of them are not. And if you read the Old Testament closely, there's actually very little explicit editorialising by the big guy in the sky. He rarely endorses or criticises a certain course of action. Which, in my opinion, makes it a much more interesting and challenging book. It's up for us, the readers, to judge.
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is hogging the Comfy Chair Member |
I've realised that I find myself quite uncomfortable at my five-year-old being read Bible stories, and I've been trying to work out why. He was read the Noah's Ark story for the first time the other day (he asked: "what's this story about?"; the storyteller said:"it's a story about God"; and my son replied: "is he the blue one that looks like an elephant?" To her eternal credit the storyteller - a Christian - said "yes, that's one of the ways people perceive him").
Anyway, the only thing I can think is that I'm uncomfortable with Bible stories because when I was taught them, I was told they were true. They may be true - I don't know. But there's a lot of baggage there. I find myself, somewhat to my surprise, utterly devoted to rationality when it comes to discussing things with my 5-year-old. He's had stories every day for his entire life, and loves them. But he'll ask "do unicorns exist", and I say "they exist in stories, and stories are important, but they don't exist outside of that". I believe in my bones a great many implausible things, but I find myself utterly unwilling to pass on any of them to him. So - i think this is the problem with Bible stories. I want him to know about them - they are such a fundamental part of the culture I live in - but it's the blurring between "this is a story" and "this is Truth" that I have difficulty with. *********************** There once was a bard of Hong Kong Who thought limericks were too long. - Gerard Benson. |
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Administrator/Colporteur Member |
Have you considered presenting them as, "Some people think that these stories are true, some people think they're just stories, and here's why"? That's the approach I'm taking with Graeme and thus far he seems to be getting along rather well with it. It does mean that he asks some very challenging questions in his Sunday School classes, but I'm glad for that - I don't want him to adopt a faith because it's easy. That's possibly the worst reason to do so.
__________ AJGraeme "You see, I have a policy about honesty and ass-kicking: if you ask for it, I have to let you have it." -Taylor Mali "Science is the foot that kicks magic square in the nuts." -Scratch Fury |
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is hogging the Comfy Chair Member |
That's the approach I've taken with the whole God question so far. (And, er, with aliens and ghosts, too.... and I believe in all three, although I have no expectation of ever encountering any of them.) I think it's just the cultural baggage that is making me baulk somewhat.
*********************** There once was a bard of Hong Kong Who thought limericks were too long. - Gerard Benson. |
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Member |
Ideally one should read the Bible with no preconceptions, not quite with the guileless innnocence of a child, but with an active, alert inquisitiveness.
But yeah, I was about seven when I read in Genesis about how Noah's daughters got him drunk and had sex with him, shocked me. And I read that pork was bad, so okay, I stopped eating pork. |
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Elah Adonijai Member  |
Don't forget the shellfish
 ____________________________________________________________________ "Patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer i beg to submit that it is the first." - Ambrose Bierce ---------------------- A Good Scoundrel isn't Hard to Find |
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I was mocked for giving up pork. I can feel a rueful sort of affection for that gormless version of me, from across the gulf of time, and sadness for the tortuous road ahead of him. But he had to figure it all out for himself.
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Assistant *fwap*er Member |
We got workbooks too. A lot of the workbooks involved how to look things up in the bible. Which is mostly why we got new ones every year. ******************************** The only really sane person in there is Igor, and possibly the turnip. And I'm not so sure about the turnip. ~~ Terry Pratchett |
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Neil Gaiman www.NeilgaimanBoard.com www.NeilgaimanBoard.com The World's End Other Writers How to Read the Bible
www.NeilgaimanBoard.com www.NeilgaimanBoard.com The World's End Other Writers How to Read the Bible© YourCopy 2001