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Originally posted by ZoneSeek:

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Originally posted by The Lord of Nothings:
But its like a giant stained glass neon Cabbalistic cathedral ceiling that either means everything or nothing at all.
Plus, some of the bits got majorly, majorly icky, which was caool. Evangelion stretching, twisting, eatcing....

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It doesn't mean jack, LoN. And, though maybe not in a knowing way, it's sort of making fun of people who try to see profundity in senseless crap.

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can't you think of it like utterly insane Christian art? the ending was interesting to look at, to experiance... it achieved an asthetic fromb eing overdone

and i'm sorry, but some bits in the series were serious and disturbing-- Shinji's Eva going nuts with him in it, EATING the enemy Angel (or whatever?) that was friggin creepy... dark and twisted. we all thought of these things as machines-- 'giant robots'-- and their organicness is revealed in its fully, icky glory

i dunno if its 'art', but its powerful in some way.... i know its not as signficant as many people say it, but stuff is in there

and you're a Final Fantasy fan, right? the games traffic in the same currency, sometimes-- a mixture of mytholgies, terms like 'Sephiroth' approcriated inapproriately (except that Evangelion actually does contain both visual and conceptual representations of the Sefir Yitzrah, at least as i understand it), glowing things....

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lord henry [from Dorian Gray]

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I LOVED Lord Henry. Let's see...I read the story my senior year of high school, so maybe it just hit me at the right point. Henry's dialogue was shocking, acerbic, and hilarious. I actually wrote a paper on that aspect of the story (while all my classmates wrote about symbolism and crap).

I haven't read the story in years, but I don't remember him as being that bad of a person. I mean, he was rich and ironic and fun - like Jonathan Strange on an especially naughty day, before his wife set him straight. Maybe sort of a little bit like Jay Gatsby, though I'm hesitant to even bring him up because it seems like everyone of my generation loves the character while our parents stand there furrowing their brows, chiding, "You're not supposed to like him!"

Maybe the thing is that I don't hate characters you're meant to hate so much as I hate badly-written characters. Lord Henry's written well, so that's that for me.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Uskglass,

*grin*

fair enough. it isn't as though i'm against the writing is bad...

and i really like the Oscar Wild plays and stories. But i just had this violent gut reaction against him...

which is very unusual

For me it makes a difference whether I love to hate a character (which, in a way, means that I love the character - I love the fact that he or she is in the book) or whether I hate a character to the extent where there's nothing positive in the emotion. For instance: Even though I see Nurse Ratched's function in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, I don't enjoy hating her at all...

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Originally posted by Thirith:
I don't enjoy hating her at all...

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i didn't even know you could enjoy hating a character. or maybe you mean that you hate her to the extent that it makes it hard for you to carry on reading?

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Originally posted by Alinda, the lost girl in long stockings:
i didn't even know you could enjoy hating a character. or maybe you mean that you hate her to the extent that it makes it hard for you to carry on reading?

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'Hating' is perhaps not quite the right word... You know, there are villains who are absolutely vile, yet you enjoy their villainy, and you enjoy watching or reading them. Someone like Scar in Lion King, perhaps, or Richard III. They're evil, and you hate their evil, yet you giggle every time they're in a scene.

But then that's not real evil. That's panto evil - and for all the audience's booing and hissing they don't really hate such villains. They might not like them, but they like watching them. So for some people Lord Henry seems to be that sort of character, if I understood them correctly.

ahh, now i see! and it's true, many of the characters i cannot stand still amuse me.

in my case, though, i really disliked lord henry. he had a nice talk alright, but he was really too viscious for my amusement.

I take a strong disliking to characters created by Bret Easten Ellis in...well...all of his books actually.
That's not to say that i don't like the books, cause i do. I certainly keep reading them.
Perhaps it's a point the writers making? I don;t know. But i don;t like any of them!

Frannie Goldsmith in King's "The Stand". Useless character.

The Toyman, for killing a kid in an issue of Superman i read when i was like 8 and traumatizing me for, well, the rest of my life. i can't really look at the Paul Dini Toyman (Superfriends Toyman is okay, though)

Mrs Coulter from Dark Materials.

I don't know why, I've happily read 1984 and hated O'Brien without it spilling into genuine anger - but Mrs Coulter is just such a cold bitch, and she's written so well that her callous, intelligent brutality is really shocking.

I mean, so many people could have had happy(ish) lives were it not for her selfish bitchery. I actually find myself feeling revulsed and violently angry - and I usually have an unhealthy fancy for fictional villainesses.

But Mrs Coulter? I still bristle at her name. Even more so with the moment of grace she has, because somehow it just makes all the more wretchedly human the wrong and the pain she wrought.

Pete

Every single character in every single Melanie Rawn book. And I've only read about half to 3/4 of one of the books on the recommendation of a friend of mine. I wouldn't recommend those books to my worst enemy. (no offence to people that like them, but if you do, my condolences.)

other than that, the narrator in Chuck Palahniuk's "Diary". Thats his only book that I've never been able to finish. although i haven't read Survivor yet... should do that sometime.

Melisandre... guh.

(from ASoIaF)

I can't really say that I utterly hate any fictional character.

Oh, I dislike some.

Although it's going to cause some flack, I'm going to go ahead and say that I really don't like Harry Potter. I do, however, like Tim Hunter, which is probably the reason.

And I'm also going to throw my red hat into the ring for Holden Caulfield. He was one of the most relatable characters that I know about. (Well, to my experiences, anyway.)

I really hate Quentin (male Quentin) from Sound and the Fury...
From TV shows and so I really hate most of the cast on Seinfeld

but but but but the cast of Seinfield are cool! and apparently lots of people in New York are like that, according to my parents!

George Steinbrenner was on Seinfield, right? so can i hate him? damn Yankees...

if we're straying from the territory of books :

Sara Sidle on the orginal CSI ...ugh...whiny little annoyance..

and the cast of almost any sitcom except Frasier.

As for book characters. Only one that springs to mind is Rand from the Wheel of Time series...not so much in the earlier books, but definitely in the later ones..

Shou Tucker, "Full Metal Alchemist." Rat. Bastard.
After reading that part of the story in the manga, I saw the episodes with his daughter on CN, and wanted to punch my tv.

Agreed. If there was ever someone who deserved a fate worse than death, it's Tucker.

ill be typing this in white print so i wont give away spoilers from Eldest highlight them if u want to know.
Murtaugh is evil and im frickin peeved that he joined Galbotrax. Blast him and those f***ing twins