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(HUGE-ASS SPOILERS WARNING) Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Discussion thread
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has one million roses
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So.

Um.

Uh...

Anyone wanna lay odds as to whether Hogwarts will open for the next school year?

Will it even matter? The way Harry was talking at the end, Hogwarts might just drop out of the story completely...

[grasping_at_straws]Might it be possible that Snape's actions at the top of the astronomy tower might have been part of some heretofore unknown plan of...nahh.[/grasping_at_straws]

What might Draco do now that he's become aware that he's in over his head?

Discuss.
(off to go and review several bits I may have read too fast...)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: fluffyllama's BIG BROTHER,


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Posts: 869 | Location: Way Inaka, Japan | Registered: March 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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At first when I read about Dumbledore dying and the Snape bit I thought perhaps him and Snape were constructing the "death." The only reason why I thought this was because of Dumbledore's pleading with Malfoy, that they could make others believe he (Malfoy) had died. But after the funeral scene, and having read somewhere the other day that it would be important to the growth of Harry's character for Dumbledore to die in order to truly face Voldermort, I feel it is less likely that the death wasn't faked. Perhaps there is a possibility that somewhere in the seventh book I could be proven wrong. It does seem a bit of a copout to me that Snape would have been in cahoots with Voldermort all along.



I'm going to think more and maybe post later.


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Posts: 12397 | Location: Bowie's Pants | Registered: August 15, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
mutant hedgehog worm
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come on people there was a whole chapter as to why Snape killed voldemort, he was bound to do it (oh no, thats the worst accidental pun yet). But he was magicailly bound to malfoys mother, to complete the task malfoy had been set.

So my guess is that either he didn't know what had been set, or it was agreed between dumbledore and snape that to actually truely trick voldemort that he had to die, also maybe it was supposed to strengthen harries determination. But yeah all a tad on the weak side.

And sorta odd to introduce a new character after all this time! and one that is apparently stonger than dumbledore. so who is the mysterious R.A.B?
 
Posts: 9895 | Location: The heart of gold | Registered: July 30, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Runs with wolves, yahr!
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I've yet to read the whole thing, but spoiler-discussions don't really bother me...like I said earlier, I already knew Dumbledore didn't survive...

As for Snape...well, it does seem to be a bit of an odd turn of events, but I can't say I think it weak or that it didn't surprise me. JK's set us (and her characters) up to trust Snape very carefully in the past books...to have him turn out to *really* be a traitor, rather than simply the guy we love to hate was quite a surprise for me...

And I think that the chapter Hal mentioned - the one right at the beginning - does do a good job of explaining why Snape has to kill him...though I do wonder if it was some kind of plan between him and Dumbledore, which would be an interesting twist...


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Psittacula servus
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quote:
And sorta odd to introduce a new character after all this time! and one that is apparently stonger than dumbledore. so who is the mysterious R.A.B?


I think it is Sirius Black's brother, Regulus.


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She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot.
~ Mark Twain

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Posts: 1119 | Location: island of misfit toys | Registered: January 31, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The more I've been thinking about it, the more I think that perhaps Snape and Dumbledore planned the last event. Something about how Snape was acting when Harry was throwing the curses at him (Thee Boy is currently reading the book, so I can't re-view that part yet) and Dumbledore's instistance that he trusted Snape. It seems too easy for Snape to have always been evil. I wonder if the events were orchestrated so that Snape could prove himself to Voldermort in such a way to gain a greater confidence that would put him (Snape) in a position to further help bring about Voldermort's downfall. I could see Dumbledore willing to sacrifice himself for that greater cause.

I also found it interesting that though in this book numerous dark events take place, if I had to choose one word to associate with this book it would be love.


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has one million roses
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Speaking of love...

When Harry broke it off with Ginny at the end, I started thinking of the end of Spider-Man 2. Shouldn't Ginny be able to make her own decision on whether or not it's too dangerous to be in a relationship with Harry?


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Posts: 869 | Location: Way Inaka, Japan | Registered: March 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Runs with wolves, yahr!
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My parents are both refusing to read the book now...

They claim that JK is "an idiotic moron" for killing off the headmaster...and that she deserves to lose a bunch of fans because of it...

Yeah...

Real sane there...


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Posts: 4138 | Location: Enchanted Mists | Registered: May 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Recovering catnip addict, (yahr)
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Dang, I clicked on this thread in the recently discussed column (it cuts off the latter half of the thread that said SPOILERS) and with my stupid scanning style of reading, read too much.

Crap. Just bought it today too.


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Posts: 2546 | Location: LaLa Land, USA | Registered: January 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
the original crazy ratbastard
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I just finished!


I can't believe he left office in disgrace.



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Posts: 1109 | Location: Elk Grove Village,IL | Registered: July 26, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
the original crazy ratbastard
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Oh wait.


I just read the cover.
Turns out I was reading a Nixon biography.


Sorry.


I'll read the new HP now!



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Posts: 1109 | Location: Elk Grove Village,IL | Registered: July 26, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
has one million roses
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quote:
Originally posted by pkitty:
Dang, I clicked on this thread in the recently discussed column (it cuts off the latter half of the thread that said SPOILERS) and with my stupid scanning style of reading, read too much.

Crap. Just bought it today too.
Gods, I'm sorry...I've edited the thread title to prevent it happening again, but still.

It's a good read, anyway.

Humblest apologies m(_ _)m


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Posts: 869 | Location: Way Inaka, Japan | Registered: March 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Despite Snape's betrayal and the death of big D, this books is lighter than the last one, in no small part because it wasn't Harry's immaturity and stupidity that contributes to getting D killed. At the very least, the Death Eaters outmanuevered them. At the most, Dumbledore and Snape are playing a very deep, high risk game.

Hogwarts will open next year. Rowling's drug her school year and school events plots this far. She isn't going to drop them now.

I am very pleased the Voldemort's immortality was finally explained and done in such a way that fits so neatly with the other books. Good show.


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Posts: 1471 | Location: Erie, Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: July 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I believe that the mysterious R.A.B. that is found in Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince is actually Regulus Black. His loyalties was as a Death Eater and he tried to leave the service of the "Dark Lord", and was killed. Perhapes he was killed for not only trying to flee but also by stealing Slytherin's Locket from the basin in the Cave.
 
Posts: 848 | Location: A Zyphorn Mother Ship Above Earth | Registered: July 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ophelia's Vengeance:
The more I've been thinking about it, the more I think that perhaps Snape and Dumbledore planned the last event. Something about how Snape was acting when Harry was throwing the curses at him QUOTE]

I agree, (and hope because i've always liked Snape), that it was planned.

After all, Dumbledore did know about Malfoy's plans, and also knew about Snapes pact, the conditions of which is that he die if he does not fulfill the conditions. And of course Hagrid saw Dumbledore and Snape fighting about something...

I think Snape was forced to fulfill his pact by Dumbledore. I think it might be easy to take the pleading of Dumbledore out of context. Could he have been pleading with Snape for him to kill him rather than Draco doing it? Perhaps he was trying to save Draco's innocence...

Or maybe he wanted to remove himself from the picture altogether so Harry does not rely on him so heavily. Without Dumbledore Harry will be forced to get tough on his own. Dumbledore is an ageing wizard, he said it himself many times, so perhaps he was afraid that his weakness would continue and compromise Harry's actions.

The other thing I wonder is what the liquid was that Dumbledore drank. I think it was Regulus Black who stole the locket, and I wonder if he replaced the liquid with some sort of poison to kill Voldemort on his return, (he was obviously pretty pissed off at him). So Dumbledore could have conveyed to Snape that he was dying anyway.

Plus Snape could have so easily killed Harry, or at least hurt him badly, as Harry was chasing him. But he didn't. And surely 'saving him for Voldy to finish' wouldn't be a good enough deterint from maiming the son of the person you despised so much. It was more kind of like he was still teaching Harry stuff....

And if you want to go down that path, (I really hope i'm not wrong hehe) it becomes quite convienient...Dumbledore's death united many people and also Snape is still securely undercover. Odd that he is housing Wormtail, but then Wormtail does owe Harry a life debt...Hmmm....

Oh...and I also wonder if the Ministry has the proper locket...there was a locket in the cabinet at Grimmauld Place that couldn't be opened...and Mundungus raided the place and stole heaps of junk, then got chucked in Azkabahn...

Or am i thinking about this all to much? hehe


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quote:
there was a locket in the cabinet at Grimmauld Place that couldn't be opened

there was a locket there? can you tell me where (pg numbers, or what happens around it), because i was looking through my #5 and couldn't find it... but regulus black doesn't seem like such a bad choice for an R.A.B.

(incidentally, i wonder what happened to James' family? i kind of assume they were all killed, but how come harry never hears from or about them? sirius mentions mr. and mrs. potter in book 5, but other than that...)


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Psittacula servus
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I was upset over Dumbledore's fate until I started thinking about what the movie adaptation of it would be like.

My favorite scene of all the movies so far was when Snape confronted Sirius in the shreiking shack. He was so menacing when he told Sirius that he could easily kill him but that the dementors should have him instead.

Alan Rickman will be superb with this new plot twist.


---------
She was not quite what you would call refined.
She was not quite what you would call unrefined.
She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot.
~ Mark Twain

Eternity lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you eaten enough ice cream?
 
Posts: 1119 | Location: island of misfit toys | Registered: January 31, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jak:
[QUOTE]there was a locket in the cabinet at Grimmauld Place that couldn't be opened

there was a locket there? can you tell me where (pg numbers, or what happens around it), because i was looking through my #5 and couldn't find it...
QUOTE]

It's in the "Noble and most ancient house of Black" page 108 in the english edition. The exact line is "a heavy locket that none of them could open".

Whilst i was looking for that for you, jak, I also noticed that Sirius's Uncle was called Alphard. JK seems to carry names on generationally as middle names. So would i be wrong to assume that Sirius has his father's first name as his middle name, (whatever that may be), and Regulus might have got his uncle's name...that would fit in with the RAB. What do you reckon?


"Money can't buy you friends, but it does get you a better class of enemy" ~ Spike Milligan
 
Posts: 137 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: March 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think that there is a chance that Snape is still good. I think he holds some sort of crucial information or Dumbledore thinks it is best to have someone as Voldemort's right hand man, even if it means his (Dumbledore's) own death. Some reasons I believe in Snape's goodness is 1) he is kind of twitchy during the unbreakable vow ceremony, 2) He slightly hesitates before doing the Killing Curse until Dumbledore pleads (Severus...please) I think this is not a plea for his life (Dumbledore is not afraid of death and would never cower before it) but a plea to Snape to do what he knows he must do. 3) Harry notes a look of revulsion and hatred on Snape's face when he goes to perform the curse and assumes it is geared towards Dumbledore, when actually it could be at himself (Snape) because of what he is about to do. 4) Snape flees and brings the Death Eaters with him instead of trying to finish off anyone else (how easy would it have been for him-no one yet suspected him) and keeps them from killing Harry or even trying to bring Harry to Voldemort right then and there 5) When Harry confronts Snape, Snape never attacks to stop him and says "Blocked again and again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!".Might he be saying this because he is giving some sort of cryptic advise to Harry? 6) and finally, when Harry first calls Snape a coward, he merely sneers and insults James, but when Harry tells him to kill him like he did Dumbledore and again calls him a coward, Snape screams DON'T- (pause) call me a coward! and Snape's face is described as having a "demented, inhuman (look) as though he was in as much pain as the yelping, howling dog stuck in the burning house..." This could be because he did not want to kill Dumbledore but had to (on Dumbledore's orders). The biggest problem I see in this plan is that it will be extremely difficult for Snape to clear his name and prove that he did it for the greater good. Sorry this is long and I kow it sounds far-fetched, but I think that these lines are in the story for a reason and this is something JKR would definitely do. Besides, Dumbledore always said he trusted Snape, I think it would be hard to have fooled him so thoroughly.
 
Posts: 8 | Registered: July 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think you're on to it, Nikki.

If Snape really wanted to get rid of Dumbledore, he could have done it any time over the years really.

I think the argument between Snape and Dumbledore could have been bought about because Snape didn't want to kill Dumbledore and go underground, though they both knew it had to happen.


"Money can't buy you friends, but it does get you a better class of enemy" ~ Spike Milligan
 
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