Just got the new Promethea collection, and although I still like Moore's other comics better, it's definitely a remarkable piece of work. Has anyone else here read it (or the single issues)? What did you think of it?

A couple of short takes:

- Even though it's still basically Moore showing off, IMO, it works better in these issues than in the Tarot one, since it's connected to a story. There's a purpose to the journey.

- The art's wonderful.

- Love that Moebius strip!

- Distinct echoes of Yellow Submarine (and that wonderful Simpsons episode Last Exit to Springfield )

--
"With writing, I find, you can have all the right ingredients, give plenty of time and care, and still get nothing. Also true of love. Cooking, therefore, can keep a person who tries hard sane." -- John Irving, The World According to Garp

I love Promethea! Especially now the Kabbalah story line is over and it seems that the series IS going to have a haunting, action filled and apocalyptic ending.

I bought the 4 Promethea hardcovers 20 minutes ago. Expensive but NICE.

- Michael

And yeah, the art is some of the best ever in a comic, and the Moebius strip thing RULES. But so did the Tarot issue.

- Michael

While I thought the Tarot issue had wonderful art, I felt I was being lectured to, which I don't even like at Uni. Also, as I've probably mentioned before, I'm a sucker for character - and character was the least important thing in that passage, I felt.

Anyway - I tried to find the fourth collection on Amazon, but they don't seem to have it. Where did you get it, Michael?

--
"With writing, I find, you can have all the right ingredients, give plenty of time and care, and still get nothing. Also true of love. Cooking, therefore, can keep a person who tries hard sane." -- John Irving, The World According to Garp

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thirith:
Anyway - I tried to find the fourth collection on Amazon, but they don't seem to have it. Where did you get it, Michael?

---

Just a regular comic book store in Copenhagen.

Maybe the 'normal' book stores get it a bit later than the 'fan market' shops. It is listed as an august release at amazon.co.uk: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/140120032X/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/202-1635977-4096653

- Michael

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thirith:
While I thought the Tarot issue had wonderful art, I felt I was being lectured to, which I don't even like at Uni. Also, as I've probably mentioned before, I'm a sucker for character - and character was the least important thing in that passage, I felt.

---

Well I can see where you're coming from, obviously. I'm just surprised that you DO like the long Kaballah thing then.

Book four finishes that story completely - plus there is a 'real' ending at the end of book 4. There is a 3 year gap between the events in book 4 and those in the fourthcoming book 5. (which will be the end of the series)

- Michael

btw I recently posted some stuff about Promethea in this thread: http://www.neilgaimanboard.com/groupee/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=733605825&f=588609765&m=9196079773&p=1

- Michael

quote:

---

Originally posted by mtxx:
Well I can see where you're coming from, obviously. I'm just surprised that you DO like the long Kaballah thing then.

---

I think it was a combination of things. For one, it reminded me of Dante's Commedia - where the sights and sounds on the trip are often the main point, but there's still a plot of sorts to give it impetus. That made a big difference in the Kaballah bit for me.

Also, even though the Tarot issue is very well done, it didn't strike me as quite as audacious as for instance the Moebius strip or the bit with the quicksilver gods. (That Hanuman joke was awful, though. )

Finally, it was the first new comic I'd read in a long time, and that after working on a chapter of my thesis that I have to present in two weeks. Made a nice change... (Although, since the chapter's on The Satanic Verses, perhaps there wasn't quite that much of a change, after all.)

Thanks for the Amazon.co.uk info, by the way. I've ordered V4 now, and I'm looking forward to LoEG V2. Looks like I'm exactly the kind of literature student who likes the 'eastereggness' of the League.

--
"With writing, I find, you can have all the right ingredients, give plenty of time and care, and still get nothing. Also true of love. Cooking, therefore, can keep a person who tries hard sane." -- John Irving, The World According to Garp

Moore is very proud of the Tarot issue. He says in the Egomania interview that he considers it probably the most clever thing he's done.

I'm sure it must have been a nightmare to construct that issue. I'm impressed that he didn't simply brush the idea aside as being 'too difficult to ACTUALLY do' when he originally thought of it.

- Michael

What is "the Tarot issue?" I seem to have missed that one.

All this time I can't believe I couldn't see
Kept in the dark, but you were there in front of me
I've been sleeping a thousand years it seems
Got to open my eyes to everything
- "Bring Me to Life" by Evanescence
__________
AJGraeme

The tarot issue was issue 12, which I think is the last chapter in book 2.

It tells the history of the world using Tarot cards, two rhyming snakes, a lot of meaningful anagrams for PROMETHEA (all of which - more or less - fit with the Cards), the life of Aleister Crowley and a lot of mindblowing graphics.

It's all possibly a bunch of nonsense, but the issue IS arguably a very impressive construction on a purely technical level. (even if I didn't find the joke that Aleister Crowley tells particularly funny. But it IS apparently an authentic joke that he liked telling.)

And some of the Tarot cards are REALLY cute, especially the one with the cute hippies.



Promethea Comic: Number 12 - Tarot Issue
Review by Diane Wilkes

When I was a little girl, my grandfather would bring me comic books when I was sick. He'd throw in the occasional romance, but mostly he brought me Archies and The Rawhide Kid. Since then, I was remotely aware of the renaissance of the genre, but the only comics I purchased and read in recent years were authored by Andrew Vachss, my idea of a superhero. When I read about the Promethea comic book, I was only intrigued because the issue being discussed focused on tarot. And even then, I didn't go into my usual acquisitive bloodhound mode and track it down. After all, it was a comic book.

Fortunately, a friend sent Promethea No. 12 to me for Christmas. This is not your grandfather's comic book. I couldn't believe the level of complexity and scholarship to be found in this little baby...

The comic book "backstory" is this: Sophie is a present-day NYC college student--a NYC that is super-techno-oriented. Sophie is more interested in myths, particularly the myth of Promethea, a mystic warrior from 5th century Egypt. In the tarot issue, Sophie takes on Promethea-like qualities as she flies through the air with Mack and Mike, the two snakes on the caduceus, who explain the mysteries of the Major Arcana to her in flippant rhyme. While the tone is decidedly cheeky, the text is filled with substance, not to mention arcane references way beyond my level of magick. To show just one example of Moore's cleverness: Rachel Pollack told me that Mac stands for Macrocosmos, and Mike, Microcosmos.

There are three levels going on--the first is Sophie's trip through the Major Arcana. On the bottom of each page, there is an ongoing story regarding Aleister Crowley, and each page has Scrabbleâ„¢-like tiles spelling out an anagram of Promethea that apply to the tarot card being explored. One of the many extremely clever details is the Hebrew letter equivalent at the bottom of the tile (as opposed to the traditional point value).

Some of these anagrams are, naturally, a bit forced. But I love "Pa Theorem" for the Magician, "Mater Hope" for the High Priestess, "O Reap Them" for Death, and "Me Atop Her" (!) for the Lovers. Speaking of The Lovers, you can see from the linked image that the Adam and Eve myth for this card, so recently discussed on Tarot-l, is in full force.



In fact, the trip from the Fool (something from nothingness) to the World (rebirth after the end of the world, which will come in 2017, according to this issue) parallels the birth of mankind to the present. Temperance (Art) is the Renaissance; The Moon card refers to the Holocaust (there is even the gate to Auschwitz, with the words "Arbeit Macht Frei" in front of clouds of smoke the color of blood).

There are so many levels to this comic book that I can't begin to address each one. But I was so impressed with the intelligence of author Alan Moore and the art of the many "co-creators" that I bought every back issue (Numbers one through six can be purchased in a beautiful bound volume with a blue ribbon bookmark--would my grandfather be surprised!). I highly recommend this comic book to every tarot enthusiast. And, at $2.95, this tarot publication is the best bargain I've seen in years.

While I haven't begun to read my Prometheas (darn update!), Rachel Pollack told me that there are other issues that feature the tarot. It seems that Issue Seven contains a partial photo version of the Frieda Harris Universe card.

Promethea Number 12
Alan Moore
www.wildstorm.com

- Michael

[This message was edited by mtxx on July 29, 2003 at 12:31 PM.]

[This message was edited by mtxx on July 29, 2003 at 12:33 PM.]

Ah.

*orders Promethea, volume 2*

All this time I can't believe I couldn't see
Kept in the dark, but you were there in front of me
I've been sleeping a thousand years it seems
Got to open my eyes to everything
- "Bring Me to Life" by Evanescence
__________
AJGraeme

The annotations for issue 12 - including more scans and source pics of Crowley - can be found here: http://www.angelfire.com/comics/eroomnala/12.html

- Michael

Follow this link to see the double page spread that depicts central two events in the twentieth century - the Holocaust and the sixties.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/eroomnala/images/12pg19.jpg

See - arent those two hippies cute? Weee!

- Michael

Volume 4 came today in the mail from Amazon. *drool*

---
jello.
aka aron.
"That's it buddy! You just lost your brain privileges!" - Plankton

Hi

I just finished reading the third volume of promethea which I really really liked!! Actually I should thank you guys especially mtxx: it's because of your comments on it that I decided to pick promethea up !!
Well this said I've got a little question that bothers me since I read it today: the route Promethea-Sophia and Promethea-Barbara take to go from the 6th sphere (sun) to the 5th (mars) its 22 the judgment or adjustment and the route they take to go from the 5th sphere to the 4th is 19 lust. Each route it's one of the tarot mentioned at the end of the second book (issue 12). Now if I've done my math correctly, if you add 11 (10 spheres + 1 because the tarot numeration starts from 0 instead from 1) to the number of the tarot (that you see in issue 12) you usually obtain the number of the route that the tarots represent. That works for all the other routes mentioned in the book, but not for route 22 and 19. Route 22 (11+11) should correspond to the 11th tarot or lust instead of tarot 8th judgment or adjustment and vice versa route 19 (11+8) should correspond to adjustment-judgment instead of lust. So what’s wrong? Is it the order of the tarot in issue 12 or routes 22 and 19 in the third book are switched? I have no knowledge about tarot but may-be someone who knows about them could answer my question very easily. I now it’s a very pitiful question but the entire book looks so well structured and every particular so thought out that ,I can’t believe there’s such an evident mistake. If this mistake is explained farther in the story please don’t tell me what it is because I haven’t read book 4 and I DON’T want any spoiler!! About book 4 I was trying to buy it by internet but I’ve noticed that they sell just the hard cover edition of it, is it the only one currently available or the TPB is out as well and it’s just that amazon.com doesn’t have it. I seem to remember I didn’t see any TPB of the 4th volume at my comic book store but I might be wrong! Last I was wondering if the forth book is the last one or if there might be other coming out later.

THANKS, THANKS, THANS

SE

I've read through the first 3 Promethea books, my thoughts are. The first book kicked ass. The second book was great until the Tarrot issue. Which in and of itself was a masterpeice and did a great job of tieing together some really complicated esoteric concepts with Bigbang theory in quatrains. It must have been really difficult to write, but at the same time I felt it was a bit too heavy for the series. If the information was spread about through a number of books as opposed to consolodated into one issue it might have been easier to digest. Then again mabye its better that he got it out of the way instead of draging it out into more issues.

The third book was also great as far as tienig together concepts from GoldenDawn, Quaballah, Hermetic Philosophy, tarrot, mythology, but again i thought it was just boaring. I wish there would have been more pages with the Stacia-Grace-Promethea fighting evil. I really like the characters and the story is really great at times, but I'm not sure if I want to read the fourth book if it is going to be less action oriented.

I liked the 3rd book a lot and can't wait till the 4th will be printed in trade to see how the mistical travel will end-up. I guess the fact the I'm a girl doesn't make me that much eager of action scenes and I always loved stories about quests!! I loved especially the mercury episode and also Venus and the moon, oh forget it I loved all of them, the caracterization of the differnt planets and their different grafic style!! But I agree about the tarot episod, I didn't like it that much, too cerebral!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Se:

Route 22 (11+11) should correspond to the 11th tarot or lust instead of tarot 8th judgment or adjustment and vice versa route 19 (11+8) should correspond to adjustment-judgment instead of lust. So what’s wrong?

---

Hi Se,

Originally Strength was numbered as card 11 and Justice was numbered as card 8, their positions were switched by Edward Arthur Waite (of the Golden Dawn) when he put together his famous Rider-Waite deck. The switch was made for astrological reasons and the new positioning caught on.

Years later, when Crowley came to create his Thoth deck, as well as renaming the cards as Lust and Adjustment respectively, he also chose to use the original positioning.

In issue twelve it looks like Moore is using the original version, which makes sense since he has mentioned being a big fan of Crowley's deck. However, for the Qabalah road trip he's going for the GD-switch version, which also makes sense since it was the GD who originally applied the tarot to the paths on the Tree of Life.

It's really a matter of personal taste, and I'd imagine Moore simply went with the positioning that was used in whatever reference material he needed for each section.

From the Alan Moore mailing list:
----------------------

It looks like Promethea #32, the final issue, is scheduled for
release on Februrary 9th, 2005.

[source: http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=2645 ]

"In a series that pushed the boundaries of mainstream comics to the
edge, this unbelievable final issue goes a little bit further! Alan
Moore and J.H. Williams III deliver the most gloriously experimental
issue of PROMETHEA yet, in which the reader takes an incredible trip
through the magical cosmos with Promethea as a guide.

But there's more! While other comics allow the reader only one way
to read a book, this issue gives you several options — one of
which
is assembling its 32 pages into a giant double-sided poster. Once
the poster has been assembled, the pages form two lovely images (one
on each side) that are only discernible as a complete entity! Final
issue."

It'll also be available in a limited oversized $50 variant edition
with a saddle stitched companion book that collects all the covers.

[ http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=2646 ]

Finally, in March, Book 4 of the collection will be available in
softcover:
PROMETHEA BOOK 4 Softcover
Writer: Alan Moore
Artists: J.H. Williams III & Mick Gray
Collects issues #19-25
$14.99 U.S., 192 pages

(no news yet about the book 5 hardcover)