whooo, old thread!

I'm bumping this because I was wondering if any fans of Pullman have suggestions as to other books he's written? I first read his Lockhart "quartet" (I guess that's what it is) when I was younger and was obsessed with it, and earlier this year read His Dark Materials, which I liked because it made me use my brain a lot. I disagreed with a lot of it and there were parts I disliked...but ultimately that made me like it the more, that it got so many diverse and extreme reactions and emotions from myself. (not to mention, the movie trailer was jaw-dropping )

So with that info, anybody read anything else of his they want to suggest?

quote:

I thought His Dark Materials was the most terrible series I have ever read. Terribly written. Terrible characterization. I have friends that swear by it, and I don't get it.

I'm not a Christian, but I think the Chronicles of Narnia one of the best fantasy series ever. It's just good story.

Pullman just seemed like he wanted to make a point. Which is perfectly normal for a writer. But it only works if you are a good writer.

I liked the NARNIA books as a kid, but the Christian context went over my head until I saw the BBC series on TV. After that, the stories weren't as enthralling. Same for LOTR in the end, I like the Fellowship because it was a lot like the Hobbit, a true sequel, but then it just gets way too overblown.

As far as Pullman's series, he lost me along the way to the North Pole. The world was terrifically interesting and realized and then suddenly, for some reason, I just didn't care to keep reading.

The first film adaptation, THE GOLDEN COMPASS, has a budget a little over half the entire budget for all three LORD OF THE RINGS films. I really don't see how this story is going to appeal to fans of LOTR or NARNIA, or even Harry Potter, unless there are major changes. New Line must be so invested, it's made them delusional.

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Underoos:
So with that info, anybody read anything else of his they want to suggest?

The Broken Bridge is very good indeed.
Lyra's oxford, while nicely packaged, is poor.

oh, pooh, the Oxford book peaked my interest.

What follows is my SPOILERIFFIC rant about the end of the trilogy. Don't read it if you don't want to know what happens.

I finally finished The Amber Spyglass last night, and feel kind of let-down by the end. While I appreciate that the ending isn't one of those perfect, happy ones, I feel like the rest of the trilogy was so spectacular that final chapters were a big disappointment. First of all, it seems that Lyra's great, Eve-like temptation that the entire series was leading up to was simply...to fall in love with Will? And the "part of the snake" that Mary Malone, the scientist, played was simply to talk about the first time she fell in love, in order to spark that romance? That seems so dumb to me. All questions of whether love, in and of itself, is a great enough "temptation" to deserve that sort of glorification aside, it annoys me that everything in the books - all the witches with their prophecies, all the angels with their knowledge, all the dust with its omnipresent foresight and wisdom - none of them had any faith in Lyra at all, if they couldn't see that she was obviously going to fall for Will the minute she was old enough to realize it was happening, with or without Mary Malone and the Maleffa and the whole temptation parallel in the Garden of Eden analogue.

Furthermore, the ending just disappointed me. It seemed like such a letdown that you should have two characters who are obviously so driven by willpower, obviously so thoughtful and responsible and clever and fundamentally mature even when they're children, and then take those two characters, make them finally grow up at the end of the books, and... not only tear them apart from one another (a plot decision that I can't decide if I liked or not) but render both of their phenomenal skills useless (by making Lyra abruptly and inexplicably lose the ability to read the alietheometer and Will forced to destroy the knife), and, worst of all, then deposit them back into their own worlds, where now that they've saved all of sentience, ended death, and done a billion other things that nobody else would or could do, they're promptly treated as children. Will is forced to work with Mary Malone, the only person in the entire world who will treat him as an adult for at least another 15 years, in order to not be shipped off by social services and put into foster care; Lyra returns to Jordan College where she is gently prodded towards boarding school, and rather patronizingly told that she'll need to be friends with other girls her age, because she has a lot to learn from them (as someone who grew up female, I call bullshit on that one. The only thing they'll do is give her uninformed speculation about how love is supposed to work, which Lyra has obviously already got figured out).

It just seems so disappointingly typical to me that everyone in all of the books would be perfectly willing to treat Will and Lyra with the sort of respect accorded to equals as long as they were being useful, but return to treating them as clueless, immature little children the moment they've completed their tasks. It especially annoys me that this shift in regard occurs right at the moment the two children turn into adults. It seems Pullman can imagine a universe where the characters are willing to kill God, etc. etc., yet still not willing to accord teenagers any real respect - even when those teenagers just saved everyone, and demonstrated remarkable maturity every step of the way, up to the point of agreeing to never see one another again even though they were obviously in love, because their separation was for the greater good.

Argh. I hate that they should have accomplished so much only to be then rendered completely powerless, isolated, and treated like they don't know what they're doing at all. And the fact that neither of them appears to resent this kind of denouement just seems so frustratingly Shakespearean, in the worst of ways. You know, that way that in his comedies the bard takes every social norm he can think of and stands it on its head, and then in Act V suddenly goes "Oops, look at that, time to wrap this up...and the only way to give things a 'happy' ending is to return everything to the status quo and mysteriously lobotomize my characters, who were so colorful and sharp a moment ago, so that they'll be content with things going back to normal because really, deep down everyone wants to be a sheep in the end."

So. Disappointing.

Ditto! I was so impressed by the first one, meh with the second and feh to the last.

I did try reading it all again, but I was still left feeling the same as you.

inagreyplace - while i appreciate that you have preceded your text with a warning, can i suggest that you edit to white it out? some people could scroll down the page and start to read it without seeing the warning.

that said, its a very good post. although i liked the plot decision that you're not sure about. i did like the series, and i was happy that the ending wasn't too cliched, but i agree with pretty much everything you've said.

although (spoiler follows) i liked that lyra lost the use of the alethiometer, and i (sort of) liked the explanation that accompanied it. it had never sat well with me that she suddenly picked up this thing that there are only 6 of that no-one can even read without the book and even then not easily, and could suddenly magically use it to sort everything out. it was a very convenient plot device, imo.

I really would prefer not to. If I white out the spoilers, I will essentially have to white out the entire post. If the whole post is invisible, I'm not sure people will bother reading it.

Personally I'm of the opinion that if you venture into a thread about a particular author and his work while you're only half-through with it, and then don't keep a sharp eye out for the (bold, capitalized) spoiler warnings, you really should have seen the unwelcome knowledge coming. But perhaps I can be kind of cold when it comes to a lack of observation, because I tend to expect others to pay as much attention as I do. How about this: if it bothers 2 more people (for a total of 3), I'll white the post out.